Episodes 2.04 & 2.05: "Nosey Bitches Die!"

We stand in full support of Palestinian liberation and believe that Israel should end its genocidal violence and occupation. If you don’t agree, please fuck off.

In this episode we cover 2.04, “Blind Dates”, and 2.05, “The Devil You Know”. We start with the most dramatic shit and then work our way through the rest. We discuss Mona’s jealousy and time management skills, Melissa’s resentment, and how the Rosewood timewarp impacts therapy modalities. Deepa recounts the one time Deepa got trapped in a graveyard and we wonder if the DiLaurentis house is haunted.

Our awesome theme song is composed by Ashok R. Chandran! You can find his other work at his website.

Episode Transcript: Read it at Buzzsprout!

Chickpeas Oh My Gosh! Turns out in India most people actually use other types of legumes like tuvar dal to make this dish, but Deepa’s family uses chickpeas! So here is the recipe for Sivarajan Family Paruppu Vada with Chickpeas

Fashion Analysis: Our best and worst outfits! Also Cameron was right, Spencer was wearing horses…

Deepa’s Literary Analysis

• The billboard at the beginning of 2.04 is a reference to both the eyes of Dr. T.J. Eckleburg in The Great Gatsby and to Lars Thorwarld, the villain in Rear Window
• We didn’t talk about this in the episode because Deepa only noticed after, but Emily reads The Heart is a Lonely Hunter by Carson McCullers at one point, which is apparently a story about a character to whom others reveal their secrets

Things We Referenced Related to PLL: 

• Pretty Little Liars: Summer School, which we have not yet watched

Things We Referenced Completely Unrelated to PLL: 

• Scouting in Friday Night Lights (again!)
• The romance novel the PLL fanfiction is from is Hannah Tate, Beyond Repair by Laura Piper Lee
• Gal pals! Sportsmanship! 
• The JustGiirlyyThings tumblr

Find us on Twitter: @chickpeas_pod

If you enjoyed this podcast (or even if you didn't), please consider donating to help Rozan and Aboud, two young people in Gaza, escape genocide with their families. You can find multiple donation options at oldcowcreative.com!

Transcript

Deepa: Welcome back to Don't Forget the Chickpeas, your favorite Pretty Little Liars podcast. I'm Deepa!

Cameron: I'm Cameron.

Deepa: And we are in the second season. Today's episodes are the fourth episode of the second season, which is called “Blind Dates” which I thought was gonna be an ableist title, but it-I mean, it was in a sense that using blind colloquially is ableist. But it wasn't like worse than that which I was worried about. Fortunately.

Cameron: I was also worried about that. Yeah, we didn't. I don't think we even got Jenna at all in that episode. So.

Deepa: We got like a phone call to Jenna, but we didn't see Jenna.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: And then the other episode was episode five, “The Devil You Know”.

Cameron: Which is a great title.

Deepa: Yeah. 

Cameron: Yeah, I like that one. I think we should start with the most dramatic shit and then walk back, I guess.

Deepa: Sure. Okay, okay. I mean, there's a lot of contenders. Like Ian is dead.

Cameron: Ian is dead was what I was gonna go with for the most dramatic shit. Are we okay with that?

Deepa: Yes, definitely. I didn't realize that happened so soon into the season. Honestly like it feels quick to me.

Cameron: So soon, and in Rosewood time it's probably been like two days.

Deepa: Although at one point I was wondering like how long it had been since the bell tower, and at one point, Aria does say something like, “We've been pariahs in this town for months.” So I don't think it's been months, but it's probably been more than like a week.

Cameron: I guess a week. Ian has been dead for a week.

Deepa: Ian has been dead for a week. Yes, it's true.

Cameron: So we know, it's at least a little more than a week.

Deepa: Since the bell tower, yeah, but it's only as long, I think, as he's been texting Melissa, or maybe or maybe he was texting Melissa before, but there were more texts after he's dead. I don't know.

Cameron: Yeah. Oh my god, sorry in another most dramatic shit, Mona slipping Ian's phone into Spencer's bag. And then calling it!

Deepa: So devious and so good, and like the planning that took like.

Cameron: To just be watching to such a moment, where you see Melissa being like, “I'm so sorry I have things to tell you” like just in this very like receptive and thoughtful way.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. And just completely ruins that. Mona, incredible.

Cameron: Destroy it!

Deepa: And it's almost kind of like a misdirection or a faint, because you think the thing that A is gonna use to get between Spencer and Melissa is the ring. But I actually don't even know if the ring comes up again. I don't remember. It may still come up and cause more strife between them. But that's not like- in this episode it seemed like that was gonna be the thing, because Spencer kept being on the edge of confessing, and you kept feeling like, Oh, A is gonna beat her to it, and it's gonna be a mess. But no, nope, Mona was on another level.

Cameron: Incredible. 

Deepa: Yeah. Also it has less like impact. But I, fucking love the horseshoe. I always remember the horseshoe like the image. It's so good, it's so good.

Cameron: There's also something to Like to like getting that when you think you're getting a ring just like this, rusty like-

Deepa: Potentially symbol of bad luck. I don't remember which way it's bad luck. I think we've talked about it before.

Cameron: flipped Over is bad luck where it's, how do I describe the shape to people that are listening?

Deepa: An upside-down U.

Cameron: Upside down U. Thank you! Yeah, that would be the description. Cause I think that's like pouring it out, or something.

Deepa: Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. Okay.

Cameron: And upside as like container for the luck

Deepa: Right? Yeah, that makes sense. And that's not like the silhouette that we see in the barn is the right way, which makes sense, because, of course, they'd be hanging it the correct way in a barn. But yeah, there's definitely stuff about luck there. Oh Mona, such good planning, such good planning.

Cameron: God, she's gotta be so busy like the things that she's like keeping on top of. And like, oh incredible.

Deepa: Also. Obviously the suicide note is incredible work on Mona’s part. When I was reading at first, I was trying to see if, now that we've been like paying more attention all through the episodes, which of the lines that I could remember from A messages. And the only ones I did remember were the first two, which is “I lost my temper,” and “she knew too much” were both from Mona hitting Hanna with the car, but the rest of it I couldn't quite track. I'm sure we could go back and figure it out.

Cameron: I was hoping to get some literary analysis on that. But then I was like, we don't necessarily need literary analysis, because we know where it's from.

Deepa: Yeah, if it hadn't been revealed for another episode then I might have like dug further. But Emily figured it out pretty quickly once Mona gives her a clue, so.

Cameron: I thought it was interesting that we have Emily doing the clue like fiddling around.

Deepa: Me too! That's a Spencer task!

Cameron: It's Spencer's task. And it was so interesting that Spencer was the one in these sets of episodes to be like, “Let's stop, guys, I don't even care.” 

Deepa: Spencer is usually on the detective work, and she's just like exhausted. yeah, I was wondering if it was part of A trying to set up Emily as the weakest link, like feeding Emily specific information. But I don't know if it goes there, but we'll see.

Cameron: Hmm, okay. I don't have like more thoughts about it. I was just like, that's very interesting.

Deepa: I had the same. I had the same thing. 

Cameron: It's usually Spencer like, puts her hair in a bun, and like stays up all night.

Deepa: And just like looks so frenzied and like, is drinking way too strong coffee that would burn off at anyone's mouth, not from the heat, from the strength.

Deepa: Sorry, I'm like moving around a little bit here. But the other A thing that I was just like Mona's doing so much, and maybe it wasn't even an A thing. But I forgot that Jason gets a note the night Ali dies in his pocket.

Cameron: Oh my god! Right! Is that Mona?

Deepa: I don't know. Mona probably didn't have time, because she was with Alison that night for most of the night, or at least the part after where Ali is disappearing, which presumably someone would have only left that note after Ali's gone, not before, cause it wouldn't make, because, like Mona couldn't have planned Ali needing to disappear. She was just writing A messages to Ali up until this point to like torment her, but she couldn't have actually planned what happened right? With Charlotte, and like Ali needing to leave. So it had to be after that. But she's like with Ali. So I don't know.

Cameron: It just could be like fucking with him, though, you know, like knowing that he's like not super with it.

Deepa: But it had to be someone who knows that Ali is like either dead or missing right? or I guess they could be. “I know what you did” and it could just be vague to fuck with him, but who?

Cameron: I don't know.

Deepa: Cause. I also don't think we see him do anything that night that he doesn't remember right? like everyone else has. Like Spencer, has stuff she doesn't remember, but she did or like was around doing. But I don't-other than NAT Club shit. I don't. Maybe it is NAT club shit. Maybe that's “I know what you did”. Maybe it's like Ali fucking with him.

Cameron: But that's what like, Why not? Right?

Deepa: True, true, good point

Cameron: Who else would do that except for, like an A situation like it might just be Ali.

Deepa: It might just be Ali. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause now, she finally has the proof. She has the actual videos from Ian by that night. So maybe it is Ali. That's a good point. Okay, okay.

Cameron: But so dramatic. You wake up from a blackout, or whatever. There's just a note in your pocket that says, “I know what you did.”

Deepa: And yeah, your sister's missing. Absolutely incredibly dramatic, like Jason just being tortured over this for like 2 years. At this point. Or one and a half years. Yeah.

Cameron: And to have this like feeling of release, even though it's not real.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I wonder if we come back to that? I mean, we do have to come back to NAT club shit that night. But I don't know if we come back to like Jason specifically maybe having done anything. We probably do. Probably when we start to like feel skeeved out about Jason during the photography.

Cameron: Ha! Ha! The like shed dark room situation.

Deepa: Exactly.

Cameron: Good point, good point.

Deepa: Also, if Ian wasn't staying with Jason, who was in Jason's house? or was his house just creepy and like it seemed like there was someone on the window, and there wasn't?

Cameron: Yeah, I have no idea. like, maybe it's haunted, you know.

Deepa: Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe it's Ali. Maybe Ali came to get some stuff now that her family has bought the house back from Maya's family.

Cameron: She's like “finally I can go through my little hiding places.”

Deepa: My million hiding places.

Cameron: Yeah. We get an imagined Ali sighting or sighting is not the right word, conjuring?

Deepa: Very accurate, I would say, imagined Ali sighting. Yeah, that scene was, I think I had a lot of emotions for Hanna in that scene, which is what you're supposed to have, but it worked.

Cameron: Yeah. I Again, like the therapy of it all, to do that in your second session with a therapist is fucking wild, to not like build some trust to establish that this is a space where you can talk to your dead friend.

Deepa: This is like speed running therapy, and I don't know if Therapist Anne realizes that time is on a weird schedule in Rosewood.

Cameron: Possibly she knows what’s up.

Deepa: Maybe they’ve had like fifteen – no, Hanna hasn't had a solo session. Yeah. Maybe everyone else has had fifteen sessions and Therapist Anne just thinks Hanna needs to catch up.

Cameron: I was like, whew! That level of vulnerability is wild. 

Deepa: Yeah. Also another major Mona move was “nosey bitches die.”

Cameron: “Nosey bitches die!”

Deepa: And I do think this means Mona is already her client, too. To have gotten access again, right? Like she got access for the Ezra diploma thing, and then, like somehow, she- I don't know, copied her keys when Therapist Anne was looking. Mona's got lots of resources.

Cameron: It's funny cause like, what is Mona upset about?

Deepa: I don't know.

Cameron: Just Hanna talking about other people? And talking about Ali in the session like, what are we- like it’s not just A controlling her. 

Deepa: Hanna talked about Ali. You know what? Hanna did say, “Ali, you were the best friend I ever had, and the worst enemy I ever had.” And Mona wants to be both those things.

Cameron: That's true, that that's a good point.

Deepa: That's so funny. Yeah, I think that's it. I think that's it.

Cameron: Yeah, that's fair. I thank you.

Deepa: I think therapist Anne is a nosy bitch for making Hanna talk about Alison. When Mona wants to be the center of attention.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: And like Caleb's back. So she's like, got that, you know. Hang up as well.

Cameron: Yeah, we didn't even get to see Mona.

Deepa: I know I know, she was too busy once again. That’s like with the break for killing Mrs. Potter. She had a lot going on.

Cameron: It's true. So back to Ian's death. Does he kill himself?

Deepa: No idea.

Cameron: Mona doesn't shoot him, right? That would just be silly.

Deepa: I don't think Mona shoots him. I don't think Mona shoots him. I think maybe he kills himself, but I don't know why, like he knows he didn't kill Alison.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I don't know. I don't know. yeah, I don't think Mona kills him. I don't know if someone else kills him. But who else would kill him?

Cameron: Yeah. Like, who?

Deepa: Also at the end of last season, there was some implication, or maybe more than implication that Garrett and Jenna were working with Ian. Right? Don't they have a phone call at least at one point between Garrett and Ian? And then that sort of doesn't- I don't know if that goes anywhere. I mean, that was clearly about NAT club stuff. But like is Garrett not worried? Like…I mean, he does pay off the guy.

Cameron: He pays off Logan Reid, our decoy delivery boy.

Deepa: Yes, true, true. I thought he paid off Logan Reid because Jenna was the one who hired him, and he didn't want to get caught.

Cameron: Yes, Jenna was the one who hired him. But wasn't it for Ian, or like related to Ian.

Deepa: Hmm, yeah, I guess you're right. I guess you're right. Yeah, that's a good point. Okay.

Cameron: Like they're kind of-

Deepa: They're all intertwined. 

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Okay.

Cameron: Like. I don't think he just, did it?

Deepa: True.

Cameron: I don't. I don't know. Maybe.

Deepa: No, it's a good point. Good point.

Cameron: But you know.

Deepa: But yeah, I think you're correct. I think Ian does kill himself, or we never get it answered. And we're supposed to assume that.

Cameron: It's just it's weird, it's weird. But Living in a barn by yourself. Hiding doesn't seem amazing, I guess.

Deepa: No I guess not.

Cameron: I don't know.

Deepa: It is still so unexpected.

Cameron: It's unexpected. Yeah. I definitely forgot Melissa was pregnant.

Deepa: Wait again!?

Cameron: Yeah. Again.

Deepa: We talked about it this season.

Cameron: Yeah, I know.

Deepa: The ultrasound! although I guess she wasn't seeing Ian. But maybe she showed Wren the ultrasound. I don't know, gross.

Cameron: That is weird. Yeah. So I remembered again that Melissa is pregnant.

Deepa: I think at this point our count is not how many times Melissa is pregnant, but how many times you forget that Melissa is pregnant, or remember again.

Cameron: Yeah. Um.

Deepa: I do like that we see Melissa almost start to confess. And like, they clearly have that piece planned out already. So I'm gonna stick by my theory that a lot of Melissa's characterization, even in the first season, comes from this idea that she thinks Spencer killed Ali, and is resentful both that she like covered up for it, and that she's blaming Ian so.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Cause like I don't think that reveal comes for a while now, but she starts to confess it. So we know for ages that Melissa has something she wants to confess.

Cameron: Yeah, there's nothing else that would be of that magnitude like, right? Cause Melissa doesn't know that Spencer, They're like siblings or like? Never mind. This is not relevant in this context.

Deepa: Were you asking about if Melissa knows If Jason is their sibling?

Cameron: Yeah, yeah.

Deepa: I don't think Melissa knows that. I don't think either, Spencer. I think only Jason knows at this point, and Alison blackmails him with it.

Cameron: Incredible.

Deepa: We did get some Hastings parents finally, after they like, leave them alone so much, and leave Spencer a note saying “take care of your sister”. She's sixteen!

Cameron: No, it was Melissa, right?

Deepa: No, because it was on the front door, not on the barn door.

Cameron: Oh, I thought it was on the barn door.

Deepa: No, it was on the other door.

Cameron: Oh. She's sixteen!

Deepa: It was definitely to Spencer.

Cameron: Oh my god!

Deepa: Yeah. ‘cause then, after that Spencer goes to the barn, and that's why she’s at the barn. 

Cameron: Jesus Christ, guys.

Deepa: Huh! Like, sure. But they did show up, and I didn't give Veronica best parent, but I did appreciate her apology. I thought it was a good apology, and that she, like, realized all the things that she did wrong. Wasn't enough to give her best parent.

Cameron: I yeah, I thought it was very nice. I appreciated that moment.

Deepa: Did you give her best parent?

Cameron: I did give her best parent, but it was only because when Ashley came home and has that tender moment with Hanna, she didn't say hi to Caleb. So that was the only reason.

Deepa: That's hilarious.

Cameron: So that's, it was very close.

Deepa: I did give it to Ashley. I don't think I was that upset that she didn’t say hi to Caleb. That's so funny. 

Cameron: I was just like. Hmm. So yeah, that was, that's my motivation.

Deepa: I didn't really feel like any of the parents were best or worse this time, because, like that moment with Hanna was really nice, but I don't know if it's her being a good parent so much as it’s her being human right?

Cameron: Yeah, yeah.

Deepa: And like I'm glad that she told Hanna what she's worried about. But. And then, like no one, was like particularly bad either, except for the Hastingses in the first episode, but then they made up for it in the second, I don't know. I just like I gave it to Byron just for being himself and for shaking Ezra’s hand at the funeral.

Cameron: Same, I gave it to Byron for being like. “Come, sit with us.”

Deepa: I was mad at Ella for being like, “You can't even talk to your friends in the hallway.” Ella!

Cameron: What do you mean? Like come on!

Deepa: And therapist Anne also acknowledged that she knows that they're gonna go around it. So then, what is the fucking point?

Cameron: What's the point? Yeah, you know.

Deepa: If you want them to get perspective, have them in different sessions. That's fine, and tell them, just tell them, “I think it would be beneficial for you to get some space from your friends. Obviously it's your choice. But like to have some perspective” right?

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: And then just like, leave it at that. Don't like make it an enforcement thing by their parents, because you know that they're gonna go around it, and they're probably not gonna get perspective because they're too mad about being kept away from their friends.

Cameron: Yeah. Not great tactics.

Deepa: No, so therapist Anne

Cameron: Yeah. Tsk, tsk.

Deepa: This is where I think we have to acknowledge that we have not yet seen Original Sin season two. That has a different name. What is it called? 

Cameron: Summer School.

Deepa: Summer School. Yes. But we have seen a clip with Therapist Anne in it.

Cameron: Yeah, woo.

Deepa: Played by the proper person unlike…

Cameron: Eddie Lamb.

Deepa: Did not age 20 years, somehow.

Cameron: And in that clip, Imogen, is that her name?

Deepa: Yes.

Cameron: Our protag from original sin season one has decided not to give her baby to Ezra and Aria, because Ezra gave her the creeps, or something.

Deepa: Yep. which, like I guess, is them responding to criticism from the first season, but like too little, too fucking late. I don't know like you clearly didn't think this was a problem in the first season. This isn't like you were saving this for the second season. I'm pretty sure. I obviously will have to watch it to see. But they didn't know they were. Gonna get a second season. Right? 

Cameron: Yeah, I mean, I do think it's funny. I saw that I. Marlene King was like upset about it.

Deepa: That's the other thing, though, like it's also like a bigger deal, because they could have just sidestepped the whole thing right. They could have just not. They did have them go to like Ezra's bookstore in that one episode where two of them – I don't remember who – Imogen and someone else maybe go to Rosewood, but still like that was like gross. But I wouldn't have been so mad about it if they hadn't like tacked it on at the end. But now to go back on it is actually a bigger deal, because it is like giving a different tint to all of PLL right to like acknowledge it which is good. But it's like, wow, okay, you've got yourself into it.

Cameron: Yeah, I. Marlene King was like, that's not like the character I wrote, or something. To a creepy character! What do you mean?

Deepa: You wrote a fucking abuser, I. Marlene King. I don't know. And the fact that you're like still standing behind it, like ew gross.

Cameron: Like at the very least, he’s creepy. And then, like all this other shit. But like, yeah, if we can't acknowledge that he's creepy, I don't know what we're like –

Deepa: Yeah. bringing it back to this episode that was really hitting home for me when Ella is so upset after finding out Ian, and she's like, “He was in our school. He interacted with our children.” He didn't coach their children. But he coached Spencer. And then I'm like in a few episodes. I don't know, but like it's coming soon, you're gonna find out about Ezra, and you are gonna be equally appalled. But then it's gonna go away, right?

Cameron: Yeah, it was that. Everything seems dirty like we said Hi to him in the hallway. and I was like, Yes, keep that. hold on to that.

Deepa: Yeah, And definitely the Ezra thing, the Ezra reveal is coming soon, like it may, if not within the next two episodes, sometime this season It has to be. And he only gets punched in the face once.

Cameron: Only one time, which, like, thank you, Mike Montgomery.

Deepa: I'm sorry you're going through stuff, Mike Montgomery.

Cameron: I just wanted to give him a hug.

Deepa: I did too! Aria, could you give him a hug?

Cameron: Just breaking and entering. Stealing shit

Deepa: When he doubles down on the lie about the pickup game in front of Byron and Aria is just like glaring at him. I felt like. There is a sense that she was mad at him for making her lie about it, too. And I was like Aria, you lie about so many fucking things. You do not get to be mad about having to lie to protect your brother.

Cameron: I was thinking that as well. I was like, we're mad about lying? Aria, that's like your whole thing.

Deepa: Your whole thing. It's the show's whole thing, but it's also your whole thing, and even the other Liars are all like Aria is the best liar.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Also Mike is right like, just because Ella's moved back in doesn't mean all the shit they went through didn't happen. And what like kind of resolution are he and Aria supposed to have over knowing that their dad cheated right? There's never been any resolution over that. There wasn't really, either for Ella. But she's an adult, and she can make her own choices, I guess, about not having properly resolved that. But like the kids are like, just because they're back together now doesn't mean that's not there.

Cameron: Yeah, I'm.

Deepa: And like Aria’s got so much other stuff going on that she just gets to be relieved. But that's not true, for Mike. Mike gets to be upset about this.

Cameron: Yeah. It’s weird.

Deepa: Like. Breaks into her friends’ houses. and strangers’ houses to be clear.

Cameron: And stranger's houses. Oh, it is funny that we only - I think we only get Hanna's therapy session- like, do we get more therapy sessions? No.

Deepa: We don’t. Not until in a few seasons or maybe next season, Emily goes to therapy, and they do like a hypnosis thing to like refresh her memories. 

Cameron: Is that when she was drugged?

Deepa: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So. It must be next season, because I think the next season opens with the night that she gets drugged. But this season, I mean, I think they're supposed to be continuing in therapy this season. But I don't think we see any of them. We do have to see therapist Anne some more because eventually therapist Anne disappears because Mona has like threatened her so. But I don't know who else we see in therapy.

Cameron: Yeah. Interesting.

Deepa: The Hanna and Ali relationship is interesting because I was kind of surprised when she said – I'm always like interested in the configurations within their group, right like, who is close and in what ways? Because often the way they talk about them don't actually seem to be the right things to me, like in my mind, Emily and Hanna are close.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: But Aria and Emily will often like refer to each other as my best friend, or something like that. And like in my mind, they're not particularly close. But oh, I don't know. So like same thing with Hanna and Ali like- I guess because Ali brings Hanna in and is like Hanna's, her like doll, right? And her project. Maybe Hanna felt closer to her than to anyone else, but I don't know.

Cameron: Yeah. As far as like the best friend line, or? 

Deepa: Yeah, I don't think Ali would have said that Hanna was her best friend.

Cameron: Who would she have said?

Deepa: If she had to say someone it would be Spencer, not necessarily because she felt close to Spencer, but because Spencer is the closest one to being like her equal.

Cameron: Yeah, on her level. Yeah.

Deepa: And because they'd known each other forever, right like. The others they're not supposed to have known. Unless she wanted to call Emily her best friend. Emily's the one she's actually closest to, but I don't think she would have called her her best friend.

Cameron: She would not have called her her best friend. I don't think.

Deepa: In my mind, Spencer and Ali are the ones who've interacted the most. Yeah, just like, have this tie. And Emily is actually the one who really knew her, but no one else really knows that.

Cameron: Right, Right

Deepa: Speaking of Hanna. I‘m so glad Hanna and Caleb are back together.

Cameron: Yay!

Deepa: That date episode was silly, but if it, you know, it got them there.

Cameron: I love like an absurd premise like that like, why would that be the case? Doesn't make any sense, but it's fine. I'm fine with it. I need-

Deepa: Lucas is just so absurd in these episodes, because first of all, if we didn't know his long history with Hanna, that will continue. I would think that he was trying to set them up, but like making them go on the double date with them, right? in another setup That would have been obvious. But then also he's like upset during the date, for all the wrong reasons, like he keeps being like “No one could ever like me blah blah blah blah blah!” Whereas Danielle is being like, “I'm jealous of her. I like you, and I don't want her here.” That is not about Lucas being a loser, right?

Cameron: No.

Deepa: It's just like this date is going down the drain because she thinks you like me. And I'm like, Okay, great. So tell Danielle, you guys are gonna go on your own date like.

Cameron: Just ditch them. I don't.

Deepa: You seem to be doing fine, weirdly, like, yeah.

Cameron: Confusing. But okay.

Deepa: Dolce Gabbana and Liebowitz is also adorable. 

Cameron: And Erin Brockabitch. I appreciate that.

Deepa: Ashley does look like she could be a high-powered lawyer. I don't really know why she's not. I mean.

Cameron: Yeah, no, she has Lawyer vibes.

Deepa: Lawyer, vibes totally.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: You could work with Veronica.

Cameron: That'd be very funny.

Deepa: That would be hilarious. I don't think Ashley would be a defense lawyer. She’d probably be a corporate lawyer. Given that she is, in fact, a banker.

Cameron: I Would imagine corporate law. and I think Veronica would get very impatient with Ashley.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron: I think there would just be like, they have different styles, you know?

Deepa: They do very much. So very much so.

Deepa: It's interesting to get more backstory about Ashley's life.

Cameron: Yeah, like her dad is a total fuck.

Deepa: Yeah, and she left home as soon as she could. So I guess she's not really in touch with any of her family. And like that was another thing that was like made me really feel for her in these episodes was getting that context. And it just like, show the relationship that Hanna and Ashley have that is closer and more trusting than others, because they talk to each other like people who can confide in each other.

Cameron: Right like Hanna knew that, like it wasn't a reveal to Hanna that Ashley didn't, or wasn't surprised when Ashley didn't go to her Dad's funeral, or whatever. Yeah.

Deepa: It also makes me glad that Ashley had a good relationship with her ex-mother-in-law, because she doesn't have her own, even though I wish that like, The only reason that we get to see Hanna's grandma is because of Tom. But I do like Hanna's grandma. So it's okay, and that's fine.

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad she had some sort of.

Deepa: Oh! And when she comes to Rosewood for their like wedding, or whatever she stays with Ashley.

Cameron: I know.

Deepa: Which is such a big like burn on your son.

Cameron: God! 

Deepa: I’m going to stay with your Ex-wife.

Cameron: Sorry!

Deepa: When I came for your wedding.

Deepa: Okay. So I wasn't wrong about Ella being an English teacher cause she is taking over Ezra’s class. I guess subs teach whatever they need them to teach right? So that makes sense that she taught history one other time. hopefully, she'll be better than Ezra. Obviously.

Cameron: I know I was like I get, It's awkward like to have your mom be your teacher, but like it does seem better than having like your abuser be your teacher, so…

Deepa: Exactly who like can fucking humiliate you in class when you're having a fight and like when you're not fighting, is probably ignoring all the other students and like. Ugh. there wasn't that much Ezra in this And what little there was I was obviously mad about, but

Cameron: There was enough, there was enough.

Deepa: Okay before we go there, though I do have some literary analysis.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: You know what it is?

Cameron: Is it the eyeballs / Great Gatsby thing?

Deepa: Absolutely. Yes. So at the beginning of the fourth episode, there's a billboard outside the pawn shop that is for an optometrist, and it's big eyes with glasses, which is just like in Gatsby, which like most people, are familiar with, even if they don't remember the book, because it's always on the cover.

Cameron: Yeah, that's mine. And like, maybe they car crash in front of it, or something?

Deepa: Yes, so I thought I thought for our listeners I would do a little like Gatsby recap just in case people don't remember. So in Gatsby, the main characters of Gatsby are Nick, the narrator, and his cousin Daisy, Daisy's husband, Tom, and Jay Gatsby, who has bought a mansion near them. The previous three are all old wealth people. Gatsby is a new wealth person, and that's the whole like tension, class tension here. Tom, Daisy's husband, is having an affair with Myrtle Wilson, who is married to George Wilson, who owns a garage in queens in this area that, like Fitzgerald always refers to as like the wasteland, or like the ashy lands. Something like that. And that near his garage is where there's this billboard that is again like an optometrist billboard. The eyes of Dr. TJ Eckleburg, and so they're constantly watching and like at one point, when Myrtle's husband finds out about the affair, he says that the eyes are the eyes of God watching her, and like her, you know her sins and stuff. But then also, when the car crash happens, which is Daisy is driving Gatsby's car, and I think is drunk, and crashes, maybe not drunk, but is driving badly, and crashes and hits Myrtle. who, I think she has just also found out about the affair.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: So she hits and kills Myrtle, but.

Cameron: Oh!

Deepa: Gatsby tell says to everyone that it was him, and because I think I think she is drunk because he said that it was him, and it was an accident, and he wasn't drunk. I think. so that both like gets Tom mad at Gatsby for killing his mistress and gets George Wilson mad at Gatsby, who ultimately then shoots Gatsby. So the eyes are watching in both those instances. But one thing I did notice this time that I hadn't, because I looked into it. Here the eyes are. The optometrist’s name is Lars Thorwald. Do you know what that's a reference to?

Cameron: Say it again.

Deepa: Lars Thorwald. I don't think you will, because I had to look it up, but.

Cameron: I, no,

Deepa: It's the villain in Rear Window.

Cameron: Oh, shit! That's fun!

Deepa: Which is a fun connection, but also interesting cause he's not the one doing the watching in rear window. He's the one being watched in Rear Window.

Cameron: Hmm! 

Deepa: Yeah. So I did like some thinking about this. And I did actually like read a couple of essays.

Cameron: Yesss.

Deepa: It's funny if you try to search scholarship on Gatsby, because I think it's just been too taught in high schools for any of it to be like interesting anymore. So, like all the like, literary, like English scholarship articles about Gatsby are like from the fifties and sixties. And then you just get this like drought, because everything is just like a high school paper, you know.

Cameron: Aha!

Deepa: All it really told me was that you know the eyes are supposed to be maybe of God and blah blah blah, and I didn't get anything from it that would make me think things about PLL. I think in PLL, it's just like more surveillance given that it's both a reference to Gatsby and Rear Window, right?

Cameron: That's fun that it's also Rear Window reference.

Deepa: Yes, very classic.

Cameron: Nice.

Deepa: So this Gatsby reference I approve of. Fitz, I don't obviously.

Cameron: No.

Deepa: Aria dressing up as Daisy? I don't. But this Gatsby reference is fun. but it also just reminded me how much I'm like bored by The Great Gatsby.

Cameron: Yeah, I was surprised you like looked more into it.

Deepa: I felt like I had to do my due diligence.

Cameron: Okay, well, I appreciate that and our view, our viewers, our listeners, also appreciate that, I'm sure.

Deepa: I also had to remind myself when exactly the billboard is mentioned, because I knew where it was, and I remembered the basic story, but I didn't remember that George Wilson says that the eyes are watching his wife right? I only remembered the car crash piece, So when I was doing that, I was like, well, I'm on JSTOR already.

Cameron: “I'm on JSTOR already.” LOL!

Deepa: One of the articles that I was reading was basically trying to analyze that apparently when it came out, critics said it had like beautiful prose, but there's something like empty in it. And this this English literature professor is trying to analyze what's like empty about The Great Gatsby, and like what's like emotionally missing. And I was like the whole thing! It’s a story about like wealth and class, and like careless rich people. That's what Fitgerald says it's about, like he calls them “careless” like a million times when they continue killing people. Of course it's empty.

Cameron: That sounds kind of empty. Yeah.

Deepa: There's my Great Gatsby opinions.

Cameron: Thank you. Thank you.

Cameron: Oh my god! So back to the Fitz, unfortunately, the Ezra. We get Jackie moment.

Deepa: We do, we do.

Cameron: She's in the Psych Department, apparently.

Deepa: Oh, I missed that. Okay, thank you.

Cameron: That's kind of interesting. Maybe, I don't know. Psych’s weird 

Deepa: Give the show's whole obsession with, I mean, more psychiatry than psychology, but still, like both, really. I think it makes sense.

Cameron: Yeah, and she's like flagged this as inappropriate. very much so.

Deepa: Definitely. She’s like sitting on his desk I mean.

Cameron: His hand is like on her thigh. Like it’s Disgusting and her being like, “Oh, yeah, I've met you at your parents house” like

what are we doing here?

Deepa: What are we doing here? What are we doing here? And she like kind of gives them some space in the sense that she like knocks really loudly before she comes in to like, you know, like I don't know. I just feel like Jackie's not, I feel like there's going to be this narrative of Jackie trying to like break them up or split or like I think she probably does at some point try to split them apart, but we don't actually have that yet. Right now. She's just like what the fuck is going on? Why is my ex-fiancé fucking his student?

Cameron: Yeah. And they're just, they keep being like, “former student”.

Deepa: Yeah. like as of like a week ago.

Cameron: And The tension here is that they aren't telling people?

Deepa: Like I can't believe they didn't tell people at the funeral where a coach, who was abusing teenagers was being- what? What!

Cameron: And Aria is like what like, “I wish I could just blame you,” or something. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, Do. I don't know.

Deepa: You can

Cameron: You Can. It's his fault.

Deepa: Unfortunately, I don't think she means for blaming you for the relationship.

Cameron: I know, I know.

Deepa: Disgusting. Yeah.

Cameron: Do we have anything else for our Ezra bucket? Or should we move on?

Deepa: It's not Ezra, but only that in that scene was my worst outfit, Aria’s dress, which is like an overall dress over like a shimmery, pinkish shirt.

Cameron: Yeah, me too. the giant zipper.

Deepa: Yeah, the huge zipper was bad. I don't. I like an overall dress. But the zipper was bad, and it was the kind that was too low, you know, like I do kind of think overalls should be a little higher. You know what I mean? like it zips like under your boobs.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah.

Deepa: I just don't like that style. I don't know.

Cameron: There was so much peplum, and it overcame the peplum to be my worst. Yeah, so Congrats Aria

Deepa: What outfits did you like?

Cameron: I had trouble with that. I didn't like a lot of them. Hanna was not doing amazing things for me. I didn't think so. Emily's just in giant shirts again.

Deepa: Emily's always in giant shirts. I know.

Cameron: I did like, Aria had a couple of shirts I enjoyed.

Deepa: Which ones?

Cameron: the green striped one I liked.

Deepa: Okay. That was that was okay. I liked the top. I didn't really like the combination with the pants.

Cameron: No, and then I thought her black shirt that had the like cut-out-y kind of sleeves was fun.

Deepa: I really like that, actually. But when I first saw it, I thought it was a dress.

Cameron: Me too. I wanted it to be a dress. I wrote down Aria's dress, and then parentheses Nope! because it was not a dress.

Deepa: We’re so the same page. Amazing!

Cameron: Yeah. It was a shirt.

Deepa: It was a shirt. It was a long, I mean it was a classic shirt of that time, a too long shirt over jeans. I probably would have worn that or something of that length at that time. I actually liked Hanna's multicolored like rectangle, blocky shirt.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: And the right word. They want big blocks that were like small rectangles. And she had like a gold necklace with it that I liked, and then she was wearing not a blazer, almost like a pea coat-y jacket. But I don't think it was a full coat. I think it was just like a – yeah. I don't know what it was, but anyway, I liked that outfit of Hanna's and then I liked Spencer has like a sleeveless green top that's collared with brown pants that I liked. It doesn't show up a ton. But the scene I'm remembering is when we see the Hastings’ parents, and they're arguing about giving Ian a funeral, and she says that you should give one like for Melissa. She's wearing it at that point.

Cameron: Did it have animals on it?

Deepa: I don't know. I don't think so. It had a pattern, but it didn't seem like a very prominent pattern. I kind of thought it was flowers, or something. 

Cameron: It wasn’t horses?

Deepa: I don't think it was horses.

Cameron: Alright. We'll see.

Deepa: I could be wrong. I could be wrong. It could be horses or owls. But I was similarly not that excited. And at first, I kind of thought I wasn't gonna have a worst outfit either. But then Aria came through.

Cameron: Thank you, Aria, for that. Usually good to rely on.

Deepa: Yeah, outfits this season haven't been that interesting so far, I think. I thought that they would get more interesting as we went on, because they're settling more into their styles. But so far they haven't been very bold.

Cameron: No, I need a little more.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah.

Cameron: okay, I want to talk about Samara.

Deepa: Okay.

Cameron: Okay. So Pam decides not to be homophobic for like one time.

Deepa: Yeah. For this like white girl

Cameron: Yeah, who likes scrapbooking.

Deepa: Exactly.

Cameron: And it was reminding me so much, do you remember in Friday Night Lights when Smash has a girlfriend and she's like a sister of someone who played professionally or got scouted.

Deepa: Yeah!

Cameron: And she just like knows how to like talk to scouts, and she knows how to like talk to parents, and she's just like schmoozing everybody. And I was like, woof.

Deepa: Oh my god!

Cameron: That’s Samara.

Deepa: Oh my god! Good point.

Cameron: This is such a like person who's just doing this like, very. “You just gotta work these schools.”

Deepa: No, you're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, that's a very good comparison. Wow.

Cameron: And I was just like, Oh my gosh, I am – okay.

Deepa: Like good job for getting her out of that mess. But yeah, yeah.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, just like the whole contrast to Maya in those scenes is so upsetting. Right? Even though it's sweet in and of itself. It's just like what you know.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I'm sorry that Maya wasn't as like, ugh yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. yeah, it's very sad.

Deepa: And I know that Pam will be nice to her when she comes back, but like still doesn't excuse it. We've I know we've talked about this so many times. I’m just always mad about it so.

Cameron: Always mad about it. One of our friends was reading some sort of romance novel- who knows what romance novel! But in this, they sent me a screenshot, and it was like someone was writing PLL fanfiction where none of the Black characters died, and I was like amazing! That's great. Yes!

Deepa: Number one, that's amazing. Number two, why didn't they send it to me?

Cameron: I'm so sorry. I'll forward it to you.

Deepa: That's incredible and what’s fucked up, is like that’s not actually there in the landscape of PLL fanfiction, at least that I have seen like.

Cameron: Oh,

Deepa: Emily/Maya is so underrepresented, despite the fact that they're the canon relationship for the first two seasons.

Cameron: I mean, of course, it's underrepresented, but Jesus Christ!

Deepa: I know, I know, and I mean the highest is Alison/Emily, and next is Emily/Page.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: They do get a lot more time. All those characters get a lot more time together. So I get that. But it's still fucking, frustrating. because then, you know, further down, you have characters who aren't even together, instead of like the two characters of color who actually date and like Emily's first girlfriend!

Cameron: First girlfriend that's like – and they're very compelling. They're so cute.

Deepa: Yes, they're so cute. And they have such an interesting like story that like when I say interesting, I mean, like the kind of story that usually compels people in fanfiction, which is often like a tense coming out story and like trying to figure out their relationship together like that's all there. Ugh. So yeah, I would read that fic if it existed, which it probably doesn't.

Cameron: I don’t think it existed. I think it was just in this book someone was writing it, unfortunately.

Deepa: Oh, oh, I like that they specify all the Black characters, because, yeah, it is all of them.

Cameron: I think like two survive.

Deepa: Two survive. We've talked about this. Yeah, the swim coach.

Cameron: And Eddie Lamb. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. I'll forward that to you.

Deepa: I mean, at the very least, you have to, for the show notes. 

Deepa: I did appreciate that the Danby package that Mona sends includes joining the A team, which I think is the first time we get that.

Cameron: Oh, is it? 

Deepa: Cause we don't have a team yet. Right? So.

Cameron: That's true. Oh, very fun!

Deepa: Very fun also made me think about our brackets, which, for the NCAA tournament for the last 2 years our brackets have been the A Team which.

Cameron: You kicked my ass this year. I don't know what I was doing. I fucked up so hard.

Deepa: There weren't like major upsets, but I think by the time we got to like the Sweet 16 there was some upsets, you know.

Cameron: Like I beat you by one point the previous year, and you beat me by like a million points.

Deepa: I think you took some risks in the first few rounds, and I think the first round basically went how it was seeded. And I think you were trying to like mix it up a little, and that was a risk in it.

Cameron: I shouldn't have.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah.

Cameron: Next year, next year.

Deepa: We haven't had to join the A Team yet in our new. Our new parlance.

Cameron: No, I don't think we've come up with things that we need to be defending in that way or putting forth in that way.

Deepa: We usually agree on things! We usually have written down the same things in our notes.

Cameron: Yeah, it's just I can't remember what happens at any point. So like, honestly, I had a moment where I was like, what's Spencer's motive for wanting to give Ian a funeral? And then I thought about it for two seconds and was like, Oh, yeah, she’s so guilty for stealing the fucking ring. I was like goddamnit Cameron. It's like, what's she thinking she's gonna get out of this funeral? What Intel? No.

Deepa: No, she's done with all that right now.

Cameron: I t just cracked me up. I was like Oh my god! I can't follow like even from-

Deepa: Also feeling guilty that she, like, set Melissa up to finding so traumatically, even though I don't know how that could have been avoided, because Melissa would have gone to see him anyway eventually. But.

Cameron: How did she set her up?

Deepa: Because she insisted that. like she got Wren to insist that he would see Ian. but I guess yeah, I guess it doesn't make a difference. Eventually Melissa would have somehow been drawn to the barn. And found him. yeah.

Cameron: Hmm, yeah.

Deepa: Okay. We get the beginnings of Jason and Aria flirting.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Gross

Cameron: Yeah, in a like weird sad way.

Deepa: Very sad, and also when he comes to tell her about Mike it's just very weird interaction, because he's being very intense, not in a flirty way, but just like intense, and then she eventually shuts the door on him. She like doesn't know how to make him go away. I just laughed that that happened because I was like, Yeah, you don't wanna like, let him in, because, you know, you don't want your parents to find out about what's going on. But like also, why isn't he leaving?

Cameron: I don't know.

Deepa: Like he just stands there. 

Cameron: Maybe he’s like fucking lonely. 

Deepa: So, probably, yeah, yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, that shit was so funny. It was like “You always do what's not expected, and I always do what's expected.” And then it was like “Ali was so bold, and my parents knew they lost the wrong child.”

Deepa: Oh, god! Dude!

Cameron: Oh my god Jason.

Deepa: Yeah, incredibly intense, incredibly intense. Also does Aria always do the unexpected? I mean. I thought like the pink hair was her thing, like she's supposed to be the like artsy one, right?

Cameron: That seems expected. Yeah, in that. Maybe it's just like unexpected like alternative to the norm?

Deepa: But that's the thing is like Jason is alternative to the norm. 

Cameron: Someone called him a freak in this episode. Emily?

Deepa: Emily called him a freak. It was wild.

Cameron: Emily, that's so weird from Emily, too.

Deepa: I was thinking about it, and I think it's because she's like especially attuned to what Alison felt around Jason, and like the harassment Alison got from Jason’s friends and shit So maybe that's why. But it was weird, Emily doesn't usually talk like that.

Cameron: Right like she was like always defending Toby when everyone was like- 

Deepa: Well, she did talk about Caleb that way, I guess. Didn't call him a freak, but she called sketchy a million times.

Cameron: That’s true!

Deepa: So, but she could have just stopped at calling Jason creepy cause I could see that. But like Freak was weird. I thought.

Cameron: creepy is true. 

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: And like just like a little too much shirtless, perhaps.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. We didn't need that.

Cameron: With maybe the kids?

Deepa: Yeah, that's the thing. Who was he playing basketball with? Like, I think they're all teenagers.

Cameron: That's like what you do sometimes to like differentiate teams and stuff. But like.

Deepa: Oh that's a good point.

Cameron: Like shirts versus skins, but like.

Deepa: Yeah. I forgot about that.

Cameron: It still just like felt very like sexually charged.

Deepa: Yeah, I did, I mean, and it was supposed to, because Aria's there, right?

Cameron: Yeah, we're like zooming in on his like muscles.

Deepa: I know. He’s sweaty. Yeah.

Deepa: Also funny because I don't really see Mike playing basketball.

Cameron: He plays lacrosse, right? I’m so confused.

Deepa: I mean the lacrosse season is over. It's winter now.

Cameron: Sure, but.

Deepa: But I don't really seem like, isn't he? Isn't he short?

Cameron: Everyone in the Montgomery family is short. which, like you, don't need to be tall to play basketball.

Deepa: I know, I know.

Cameron: But like kind of in dudes’ basketball.

Deepa: You kinda do? Yeah, everyone at that court was dunking.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah.

Deepa: The opening montage was literally them dunking, like 5 people.

Cameron: I love it, I love it.

Deepa: Wren is properly back, speaking of creepy adults.

Cameron: Ew yeah. 

Deepa: It does make sense that he'd help Melissa with this out of guilt.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I also liked when Veronica was like “Wren called. is a good thing your dad didn't pick up.”

Cameron: yep. Where do we think he is? In his like medical training?

Deepa: I think he's an intern. He's an intern. Yeah. Yeah. And then next season is when we'll start to see him at Radley, which I think, means he probably starts us like a psychiatry residency. That's where I've decided. Because right now He's just in the hospital, you know, so he's he could be doing anything he could be on any rotation. We don't know.

Cameron: We have some more Garrett. It just it feels like. And we probably talked about it before. But like he's a cop, they sort of trust.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Which, like, not great. I mean they don't know about A Team or – A Team? Haha! 

Deepa: NAT club.

Cameron: NAT club – really, they've like seen the vids, but not like.

Deepa: They don't know he's involved. They definitely don’t know he’s involved up until the yearbook shit.

Cameron: But I don't know. It's just funny that they trust him, and that they're like clueing him into what they know.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. Well, ‘cause in the fourth episode, when they're on their way to the barn, they talk about maybe calling him.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Someone says no, but I don't remember why. I think they just said we don't want to get him more involved, like almost like for his sake, right? Or that was the implication. Not that they don't want the cops involved. And then, of course, Emily, in the next episode, tells him about Logan read and does she tell him about the suicide note too? No, I don't think she does.

Cameron: No, no, she does not. Yeah. ‘cause that would be a little complicated to explain. I think.

Deepa: Yeah, A stuff. That's too A stuff related. Yeah, but she tells him about Logan Reed.

Cameron: Yeah

Deepa: I think they continue trusting Garrett until they find out about the NAT Club. Then in the next season is when he actually becomes a suspect for Alison's murder, because he also becomes a suspect for Maya's murder, and that's why I know it's next season.

Cameron: Oh, man. Is it just he becomes a suspect for Maya's murder because he's a suspect for Ali's murder?

Deepa: I think, so, yeah.

Cameron: So he’s just like killing teens?

Deepa: I think they assume those are connected. They assume that Maya knew something about Ali's murder.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: I think we think that for a long time, too, like I think the Liars believe it.

Cameron: Yeah. That storyline is so rough.

Deepa: Oh, horrible! So horrible! Yeah, we're going to have to sit through it a fourth time.

Cameron: I watched it with Dylan relatively recently, so.

Deepa: You're gonna have to sit through it a fifth time.

Cameron: Kind of unfortunate

Deepa: We do see the Ali and Ian video for the fucking millionth time.

Cameron: Oh my god, okay! This viewing was amazing, though.

Deepa: Yes!

Cameron: Projector in the graveyard.

Deepa: Yes.

Cameron: It’s so spooky, it's so misty.

Deepa: No one knows where the image is coming from which makes it even spookier. It's great. Yeah.

Cameron: I loved that. But yeah, like.

Deepa: Extremely well done.

Cameron: We get Ian walking away from the… and it's like, yeah, she didn't die right then. I don't know what to tell you.

Deepa: Yeah, die on videotape right then, like. And Emily said that earlier, right, like, “A gives us all this stuff, why are we trusting it?” But they were trusting it up until now.

Cameron: It ends there, right? It's not more.

Deepa: I think so. Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I think it's probably the last time we see the video.

Cameron: Great, because I'm over it.

Deepa: Yeah, we need to be over it.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, Ali like, goes back to her house like after that, because she gets hit on the head right outside her house. Her mom sees through the window. So yeah, we're done with that. She may see some other people before she gets back, but I don't know.

Cameron: She sees like seven other people.

Deepa: Yeah, I just don't know what, I just don't know the order.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Deepa: I don't know who she saw before Ian, cause everyone else I think she did see closer to her and Spencer's house.

Cameron: Toby gave her a ride or something? Or a sweater?

Deepa: Right. Toby gave her a sweater. She sits in Ezra's car.

Cameron: Ezra gave her a ride?

Deepa: I don't know if he gives her a ride or not. I'm not sure.

Cameron: God.

Deepa: Where Ezra gets mad that she's not the age that she said she was. You creep!

Cameron: Like, well, maybe you should reflect.

Deepa: Every time they sneak into the graveyard, I think about the time I got trapped in a graveyard.

Cameron: Oh my god, you did get trapped in a graveyard! It was much less spooky, though I will say. it was like 4pm.

Deepa: It was like 4pm. Listeners, basically, I think it was 2021? It was still in a period where mostly I wasn't seeing people other than Cameron – because we lived together at the time – indoors, including my family, who also lived in the same area. So we would hang out for walks and stuff. So one weekend, beautiful, sunny day. But I think it was like February. I think I think it was like a weirdly, weirdly summary day for a winter month. And we went to a park nearby, and we're walking. And then next to that park is a private cemetery, which is also really beautiful, and has some really nice views from it. So people do just like go walk in it. So we were like, Yeah, let's go walk in the cemeteries a little less crowded there than in the Park. but because it was February it closed at 4 Pm. And we didn't realize when we were going in. So we're like strolling around and like we see other people. And then we don't see other people. And then we get to the gates, and it's like 4:15 and They're locked. And they're like really high gates. And then like, because it's a private cemetery, all the walls have like barbed wire on the top as well. Lots of security. So we keep trying to like call people to see if they can unlock the gates, but like it's a weekend. So the office is closed, and other people see us through the gates, and are like stopping their cars to try and help us. And eventually my sister and I decide to actually climb over the barbed wire part of the wall, cause it's not as tall, and we put like a like someone who stopped puts like gives us like a towel to put over the barbed wire so that we don't hurt ourselves, and my sister makes it over. And this is where I started realizing even though I was 31 then, I felt very like I could still do anything that I used to be able to do in my twenties, but as I was climbing that I was like, Oh, wait! My body isn't the same as it used to be. This is not easy. But I get over the barbed wire and like rip my finger on it. That of course, scares my parents, who were wondering if they can also climb over. But, like now, they're too scared to climb over. So now my sister and I are on one side of this gate, and my parents are still locked inside, and I'm like bleeding everywhere. All these people have stopped their cars still. and my sister is like trying to take care of me cause she has like a medic background, and I'm like freaking out. And then I finally have to call Cameron to come take me the ER and then my sister called the fire department to come get my parents out on a big ladder, and it was just one of the most ridiculous things that’s ever happened.

Cameron: So silly.

Deepa: I had to get five stitches in my finger, which is a lot.

Cameron: It was jagged. It was weird. Yeah.

Deepa: The shape it tore in. Yeah.

Cameron: It was 2021, so I couldn't go in with you to the ER, or urgent care, whatever, which was a bummer.

Deepa: Yeah. We weren't vaccinated yet because it was February 2021.

Cameron: Yeah. But then we did one of our cool moves, where I think we ordered two pizzsa, two large pizzas, for just the two of us.

Deepa: We were like, “We deserve this!”

Cameron: And like probably beer delivery as well.

Deepa: Beer from the pizza place.

Cameron: The pizza restaurant.

Deepa: Meanwhile my parents did get rescued through like the big firefighter ladder, like a fire truck went and got them out. 

Cameron: Which like that’s what fire trucks do in like media, right? Like rescue people stuck places or cats, or whatever.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. But it actually happened. And I actually don't even have a full video of it. Because my sister did not take a full video, she took like a brief video of my parents climbing the ladder, but.

Cameron: God, I forgot about that.

Deepa: Not at all creepy, but incredibly dramatic. It really was just like sunny and like bright. Probably the sun was about to set, because it was winter, and it was, you know, but still. No more graveyard walks for us. Anyway.

Cameron: Very silly.

Deepa: I hope that the Liars didn't have to climb a barbed wire fence to get in, but they are all very young and more flexible.

Cameron: Yeah, Emily could definitely do it.

Deepa: Emily's got it. I think Spencer could do it.

Cameron: Spencer could do it. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. I think Hanna and Aria could do it. I don't know if their outfits would survive it.

Cameron: No, which like might be, they just wouldn't do it.

Deepa: Right, right.

Cameron: I did like kind of at the beginning of episode four. We like are watching Aria from outside of her window. Just like before school or whatever.

Deepa: I don't remember that. I can picture a shot like that, but I don't remember it.

Cameron: I was like, oh, yeah, we're like being creepy. Yeah, yeah, we're doing surveillance.

Deepa: Every once in a while they do that, right? They show us the scene from outside someone's house, through their windows, or whatever it's interesting. Like is that always supposed to be A or is it just you know just a gimmick?

Cameron: It could be so many people.

Deepa: Yeah. Okay, this is very random, but two terms of phrase that I just thought was, we're very silly. Number one, Hanna says to Caleb or Lucas- one of them about the other. “Isn't he your bro mate?”

Cameron: I heard Bro-mate, yeah.

Cameron: why wouldn't we just say bro?

Deepa: Or roommate? So that was silly. The other one was that in the imagined conjured Alison Hanna scene, Ali refers to the four of them as “gal pals”, and I was like, are we at a time where that actually means lesbians? But no, I looked at.

Cameron: Don't think so.

Deepa: I looked it up. The Kristen Stewart gal pal thing happened in 2015, so. Unfortunately.

Cameron: Oh, okay. So, funny, though. My roommate told me yesterday that you know, like the Tumblr that was like “Just Girly Things”, or whatever.

Deepa: Maybe

Cameron: It was like very like basic bitch, you know, like sipping coffee in a sweater like just girly things type stuff?

Deepa: Okay.

Cameron: Apparently the two girls that ran it got married, which that's cute. Just girly things, you know?

Deepa: “Just girly things” like marrying your gal pal.

Cameron: Sportsmanship.

Deepa: Sportsmanship!

Cameron: Are we going to move on to Chickpeas Oh My Gosh?

Deepa: Yes, I think so. I have a recipe which is for an Indian snack called vadas. Have you ever had vadas?

Cameron: I don’t think so, tell me more.

Deepa: There are many different types. So you may have had one. But they're basically like a type of fried either like vegetable fritter or lentil fritter. I think a lot of the more popular types of vadas are like often in like donut shaped, and they're more they're either made with like more vegetables and potatoes along with the lentils. But that's not the type that I really like. The type that I like is made with chickpeas primarily and other things as well, but ground chickpeas, and it's much more. Probably the best comparison to another cuisine is, it's like falafel. 

Cameron: Oh! Okay 

Deepa: It’s usually a round ball, or maybe something like a flattened ball, but it's not like a donut shape, like some of the others are. And it is darker brown. And yeah, it's a lot like Falafel In some ways. I actually don't have the recipe written down yet. I have to ask my mom for it.

Cameron: Nice.

Deepa: But that one is called, at least in south India, it's called a paruppu vada, paruppu just means lentil, it's like the same meaning as dal, it means lentil broadly, but it from at least from my experience It's usually made with chickpeas, so they are delicious. Whenever we go to India We usually in my mom's, in the part of India where my mom's from, where all of her siblings still live. We like will get snacks. We will buy vadas every day from a little shop nearby that makes them, and we used to make them at home a lot more often. We haven't as much lately, but we should, because they're delicious.

Cameron: How big are they?

Deepa: They're not very big. They're like falafel size.

Cameron: Okay. Okay.

Deepa: The only thing is when, like falafels are usually like actually round, but we often make them sort of like a flattened disk, Just shape wise. But I would say it's about the same amount of food as, each one is probably about the same amount of food as a falafel.

Cameron: Do you like dip them in something, or eat them with something, or just like nom nom nom?

Deepa: Yeah, you can eat them with chutney. The other type of vada that I was talking about the more sort of golden one is often soaked in yogurt or in sambar. I don't like those versions. But you can definitely always eat them with chutney.

Cameron: Thanks.

Deepa: I usually eat them plain, though. I mean I do that with a lot of snacks like samosas I also eat plain. Sometimes if they're not spicy, maybe I'll put something on them, but.

Cameron: Oh, that sounds yummy.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. they're good. And they freeze really well. So maybe I'll make my mom make them and then have you taste them sometime.

Cameron: Yes! Very exciting. Okay, thank you all for listening to another installment. I'm sure we'll be back in your ears very soon. And until then, act normal bitches!

Cameron: Bye.

Deepa: Yay!