Don't Forget the Chickpeas

Pilot: "Maybe a Little Too Much, Em"

• Deepa & Cameron • Season 1 • Episode 1

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Welcome to Don’t Forget the Chickpeas, a Pretty Little Liars rewatch podcast about the things we love & hate about the show, everything queer we can possibly discuss, the best & worst outfits, the best & worst parents, our love for Heather Hogan, and chickpea recipes!  In this episode, we discuss the pilot episode of Pretty Little Liars.

This podcast is hosted by Cameron (she/her) and Deepa (no pronouns), and we have been friends for...jfc, over ten years? And PLL has been a core part of our friendship basically since the beginning. Now that we are back to being long-distance friends, we're rewatching PLL together and sharing our commentary!

Some things to note from the start:

  • This is a rewatch podcast - it’s our fourth time watching the show, and we have watched all of the spin-offs at least once as well, so we will be spoiling things from across the PLL television universe.
  • We love PLL dearly, but there are a lot of things we dislike about the show and are super critical of, including but not limited to the ableism and sanism, the anti-Blackness and other racism, the transmisogyny & transphobia, the fatphobia, Ezra and every other abuser on the show, and much more. If you are into any of those things - well, yikes, but also this is not the podcast for you!

SHOW NOTES

Find us on Twitter: @chickpeas_pod

If you enjoyed this podcast (or even if you didn't), please consider donating to help Rozan and Aboud, two young people in Gaza, escape genocide with their families. You can find multiple donation options at oldcowcreative.com!

Deepa: Hi everyone! This is a new podcast called “Don't Forget The Chickpeas”. My name is Deepa. I don't use pronouns, I'm queer, and… I’ll send it over to Cameron.

Cameron: Hi! My name is Cameron. I use she/her pronouns. I'm also queer. What else are we telling the people?

Deepa: I don’t know! I ran out of things to tell people.

Cameron: Great! Well, that's all you get to know for now.

Deepa: Cameron and I have been friends for like ten years now? I think so. And we have lived together various times, including, most recently, we spent like the first two years of the pandemic together, which got us even closer. But now we are long-distance friends - because Cameron left me - so we wanted to start this podcast because we love PLL and love talking about it. But before that happens, there are some things we don't like!

Cameron: Oh my gosh, there are so many things we hate about - well, that we hate about a lot of things, but specifically about the show. I would say the first thing that really gets me going is the whole Ezra situation. And just the general predation of adults on teenagers, just, like ahhhh! And the way that's just normalized and okay! It's just so fucked up. So that's real bad. But that's like standard real bad, I feel like, for most teen shows.

Deepa: Unfortunately.

Cameron: I think other things we hate - the ableism, specifically with Jenna. That happens a lot. She's evil because she's blind? Maybe?

Deepa: Potentially. Even though they blinded her. So, you know -

Cameron: Even though the Liars blinded her! Yeah, I mean, it comes up in other things, but that's like the main one.

Deepa: There's the sanism too.

Cameron: Yes! Radley exists.

Deepa: But we won’t get there for a little while, so -

Cameron: We institutionalize people there.

Deepa: Yup.

Cameron: Yeah. There's also just this very specific anti-Blackness where they just murder all the Black characters for no reason. Like it just happens. Yeah. Not ideal.

Deepa: Yeah, exactly. Eddie Lamb might make it out alive. Actually, I guess we know he makes it out alive.

Cameron: We do know, but he gets less hot, and I don't think - which is not like that tragic, but -

Deepa: No, but it's weird.

Cameron: Yeah, those are the top ones I was just - like off the -

Deepa: You forgot the transphobia.

Cameron: Oh, god, I am so sorry everyone! Oooooh.

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah.

Cameron: Oh, that's a biggie.

Deepa: That one also doesn't introduce itself until later. So yeah, in the first episode, it's not as evident.

Cameron: That's true. There's not transphobia in the pilot. So…congrats? What! Yeah. Oof, sorry. Yeah. Did we miss anything else?

Deepa: No, I think that's it. I mean, there's characters other than Ezra that we just don't like, that - I feel like we'll get to them as we go on.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. So I guess people should just, you know, be warned about those things, if you like any of those things. And this has already happened in our conversation so far, but we are definitely spoiling stuff for the rest of the series.

Cameron: Oh yeah.

Deepa: We’ve also watched all the spin-offs and probably will make references to those. So this is not one of those, like, we're watching this for the first time and are telling you our reactions. We are watching this for the fourth time and telling you our reactions!

Cameron: Is that true??

Deepa: Yeah. It’s true.

Cameron: Well!

Deepa: Yeah. And this is the first time we're not watching it together. Which, to be honest - I've been really excited about this podcast, and, it was also really weird to watch it alone!

Cameron: It was weird to only be having a conversation with myself during it, because that's not what it usually is happening, right? It's like, “Oh my god. Deepa.”

Deepa: Yes! Also, I noticed stuff I had never noticed before, because I wasn't talking to you? Like various details.

Cameron: Same! Okay, did you - I’m just diving right into some… really obscure something.

Deepa: Today we're talking about just the pilot, by the way.

Cameron: Just the pilot. There were a couple of things that surprised me about the pilot! I was surprised that we got introduced to certain characters like so early. I just was like, oh, yay Maya! We get Wren, we get Wilden. We get those people immediately.

Deepa: Wilden surprised me.

Cameron: Yeah, those three, I was like, whoa! Those are just - we're hitting the ground running. Oh, and I think we had at least three actors that will be replaced.

Deepa: I was noting that too. Yeah. Different Ian.

Cameron: Yes – oh, right, different Ian.

Deepa: Different Toby at the end. Different DiLaurentises – there was Jessica, so I assume the man next to her was supposed to be Ken? But I don't know. And also I noticed, where was Jason? He just wasn't at the funeral.

Cameron: For his sister?? Bad look.

Deepa: Yeah, even old Jason wasn’t there.

Cameron: Also there were people that I think were maybe supposed to be Spencer's parents?

Deepa: Oh yeah, Spencer’s parents never showed up!

Cameron: They were just with her at the – they showed up at the funeral at the same time and hugged Emily's mother? And I was like, are those supposed to be Spencer’s parents? People we never see again. Just like random humans.

Deepa: I did not notice that, so I’m glad you did.

Cameron: I was just like, that's so silly.

Deepa: Yeah. I also noticed - it's not about the actors, but some inconsistencies that don't make sense later. But they're not big plot ones, which is what I always assume are there? Like in the very first scene, Spencer calls Aria “Ari”, and I don't think they ever call her that!

Cameron: That's funny.

Deepa: Then in the bar scene Aria orders a cheeseburger, even though she's supposed to be vegetarian.

Cameron: I didn't even think about that!

Deepa: I had to go back and play it to make sure that I heard it right.

Cameron: I think I couldn't even focus on that scene, because I was like too upset.

Deepa: That’s fair! Also, I'm going on a tangent - I’m sure you probably have told me this before, but I never understood that B26 was the number on the jukebox and not the name of the song??

Cameron: No, because it doesn't - why would it be that? Yeah, no, it doesn't make any sense. It's so pretentious.

Deepa: I don't really know the song, I guess? It’s The Fray, I've heard some of their songs, but I didn't recognize it? B26. Ugh, we’re going to get to the poem at some point, and it’s going to be hilarious.

Cameron: It's just – “it's a girl.”

Deepa: “It’s a song.” Why do we have the first two lines memorized?

Cameron: It’s so embarrassing. I think - and this is something we know, but it really hit me how much they wanted Aria to be the star of this, right? Like it's her coming back, it's her - she gets the first good chunk of the episode, her family -

Deepa: Yeah, the whole family.

Cameron: - they're all there, which is not what we can say for everybody. It was just like, oh, yeah, they're really trying to push this.

Deepa: Yeah, and she gets the first real romance because Emily and Maya don't actually get together in the first episode. 

Cameron: Oh my god, they're so cute, though!

Deepa: They are so cute! They are so cute. Oh, yeah, and Aria gets featured in the theme song for like five seasons.

Cameron: Ooh, the whisper.

Deepa: Yeah, until eventually they sort of toss it around to different people. But yeah. Yeah, I mean, I feel like - there's very little Hanna in the episode. There's that one scene. Oh, no, I guess there's a shoplifting and everything. Yeah, I guess there is that, but definitely Aria got the most fleshing out. And the parents thing, because, you know, we always talk about how later in the show we get fewer parents every episode, and this time we got a lot. But we didn't get all of them. So it was kind of clear who we did get.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. I also kind of forgot about the whole thing - like Pam talks about this, Emily’s mom - the whole thing where Aria and her family are supposed to be so like laid back, and I think at one point - I didn't notice this in the pilot, but I think at one point in the first season they aren't calling their parents “Mom” and “Dad”? Or someone else says that they call them by first name? But then I don't actually think that continues. But there's this whole, like, “Oh, they're so flexible and let their kids do what they want.”

Cameron: I think Emily's mom basically said “goth” like it was a slur. I don't even know, it was just so funny!

Deepa: She’s not even a goth either, even in the opening!

Cameron: No! She had a streak or two of purple in her hair.

Deepa: Exactly, and she wore some black, I guess.

Cameron: But it is very obvious that - both from Pam, Emily's mother, and from Hanna's mom - that Rosewood is this small town and everyone's watching you. You can't fuck up.

Deepa: You have to be perfect.

Cameron: You have to be perfect. And that sets a tone, you know.

Deepa: I think that sets the scene for the whole - the secrets, and just like the suburban middle class-ness of it. Right? Like it's this very - everyone's watching you all the time, because of both of surveillance of teenage girls and teenagers, but also, like, the surveillance of the suburbs. And you know, people being - I don't know how to say this, exactly, but everyone watching each other to make sure that, you know, “unsavoury elements” are not there.

Cameron: And you have to perform a certain level of…something, right? Like Pam sending that gift basket over. That had foie gras and the whatever.

Deepa: Foie gras! Honestly, I’m surprised Maya even knew what foie gras was. I don’t think I knew what it was at 15.

Cameron: Maybe there wasn't foie gras and she was just making a joke.

Deepa: That would be funny. Yeah. Oh, yeah, there's also like the idea that like - actually, I don't know if this came up in this episode exactly. But there's the idea that Ashley and Hanna - I mean, perhaps because she's a single mom now - are less wealthy. Which is true in, you know, comparison, but they’re still part of the same middle class demographic, you know. They’re not poor.

Cameron: No, they're not poor.

Deepa: But they have this storyline. They have lots of storylines about money. They have Hanna shoplifting, even though her mom says she could buy her whatever she wants, right? There's definitely some class elements that they're trying to make with Hanna and the Marins that, like, don’t totally work –

Cameron: They don’t.

Deepa: - and like they maybe get a little better – or, I don't know, maybe get a little more thrown into focus when Caleb shows up. Because that changes things.

Cameron: Yeah. I think it's also interesting that - I don't know, the opening, or like flashback, or like setting the stage - is such a short time period. It's like one or two minutes. And I was like, oh - I mean, I guess because they flash back to it so often, ad nauseum, I just - it is bigger in my head. But I was like, oh, it is so short.

Deepa: Yeah. And even in the other flashbacks with Alison, we don't get any sense of why people are friends with her, because they're all of her – like they're her taking Spencer aside and telling her that she's going to tell Melissa that Spencer kissed Ian, or that she's going to tell Ella about Aria’s dad. There's no sense of why they like her other than that she's, you know, hot and popular. Also, just a note that I'm pretty sure Sasha Pieterse is 13 in that scene.

Cameron: It’s so impressive. But yeah, everyone else is like 30.

Deepa: I think at least Troian and Shay are in their twenties? I don't know about - I think maybe, yeah. And the other two are like 18 or 19. But yeah. Oh, man, just back on the class thing. I mean, that's something we talked about a lot when we were watching Original Sin, right? Which probably not going to do a podcast about. So we might as well talk about it now.

Cameron: Yeah, we can get our Original Sin feelings out.

Deepa: Yeah, because it definitely took us to a different type of environment. And there is a huge class narrative there. But I don't always know what it was trying to say. Except that, like, this is even darker than the original universe.

Cameron: Yeah. Was that the only reason?

Deepa: Maybe?

Cameron: Because it was like… grittier.

Deepa: Exactly. Like I'm sure the palette was different, but not in a way that Rosewood’s palette is – I mean, Ravenwood’s palette is.

Cameron: Oh my god, Ravenswood’s palette!

Deepa: But Ravenswood is the same kind of suburban middle class setting. It's just, like, haunted. But Original Sin is not. It's slasher movie grittiness.

Cameron: Yeah, there's just a quarry.

Deepa: There’s just a quarry! And, like, trains on a railroad that don't go anywhere, and there’s just someone living in them. That feels like a classic - like this abandoned train station. Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, that wouldn't fly in Rosewood.

Deepa: No. Well, and then they go to Rosewood, and the contrast is supposed to be there, right? Because they stay at the Radley, even though it looks totally different. And they talk to Eddie Lamb, who is a different person who is 20 years older. So silly.

Cameron: Ugh, man. I was thinking about what people – this is before they do a lot of stuff, right? - what people are getting blackmailed for initially, and it's wild? It's for being like preyed upon! Like, what? For two of them it’s like, oh my god.

Deepa: For Aria and Spencer!

Cameron: And for Emily it was being gay, which is -

Deepa: Because those are things that later - or at least Emily - obviously the surveillance of her doesn't stop when she comes out, right? Like they build on it. So it is kind of wild that that's the first one.

Cameron: Yeah. And Hanna’s is like, yeah, she did the shoplifting, but it's also about her being chubby, you know? It's more about that.

Deepa: Yeah. Oh, we forgot to talk about fatphobia at the beginning!

Cameron: Oh, we hate fatphobia! Ugh.

Deepa: Yeah, absolutely. Oh god. Well, and that's the thing - at the beginning, none of them are being blackmailed about the Jenna thing, right? I don't think any of the A messages refer to that. They just talk about it at the end, or, you know, when Alison's body is found. Which, I guess - I mean, I guess they’re trying to set up at this point this possibility that Alison could still be alive. So maybe the Jenna thing wouldn't make sense to blackmail them about, but it's so weird because they focus on it so much later.

Cameron: And they did say it like three times - they said it a bunch of times in the pilot, “the Jenna thing”, “the Jenna thing”, “the Jenna thing”.

Deepa: Yeah, and just to lead up to the supposedly sinister moment when she walks in with her cane, which is supposed to be terrifying and evil, that she is using, you know, her device to get around as a blind person!

Cameron: Oh god.

Deepa: It’s so shitty! The topic of the cane is going to be a recurring, supposedly sinister, you know.

Cameron: Yeah, it just functions as a - you know, like a spooky movie. It's like listening to the – ugh.

Deepa: Exactly. And there's this element of that being her sneaking around, even though it's everyone else sneaking around her, and often doing things where they’re taking advantage of her blindness, right?

Cameron: Usually! Like not saying they're there, or just pretending to be other people. Ugh.

Deepa: Yeah. It gets so bad. It gets so bad. Ughhhh.

Deepa: Um. Can we talk a little bit about Melissa Hastings?

Cameron: I would love to talk about Melissa Hastings!

Deepa: I'm just trying to remember - so Cameron and I have made a list of the most chaotic people in the show. I don't know if you have it on hand –

Cameron: I could find it.

Deepa – no, that’s okay. But I’m pretty sure Melissa's number one, right?

Cameron: I think so. Yeah.

Deepa: So Melissa Hastings, the most chaotic of a plethora of chaotic people in Rosewood, and - starting off strong, honestly, in the way that she accuses her teenage sister! Like this is a person in her twenties. She's at least finished - she's going to grad school, and just, like, treating her teenage sister like she is responsible for - I don't know, everything? Like - we're going to get to it being worse when Wren and Spencer have stuff, but the seed of it is already there, and of her just like - being wild!

Cameron: Just being - it's like an adversary! It’s just like – I don’t know. It's very weird. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah! I have, you know - I think about my sister a lot because we have a similar age gap, and thinking about when I got out of college, of, like, competing with my sister – it’s absurd!

Cameron: Are you serious? Like, what are you trying to prove?

Deepa: I, like, have my own life, and, you know, don't need to stay in a guest room - or like I can just stay in - that house has so many rooms.

Cameron: It’s huge, and no one’s ever there!

Deepa: It’s true! Only Spencer’s ever there!

Cameron: It’s only Spencer and no one else.

Deepa: That’s a really good point! Yeah. Yeah. So like Wren and Melissa could definitely be fucking at whatever room they want instead of the barn.

Cameron: And no one would know!

Deepa: It's also funny to me that we hear about the barn in the beginning, and Spencer remodeling it, and we never see the inside of it until, like, season six or five? I think season five –

Cameron: When Spencer actually moves in there.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron. That's funny. Because it's -

Deepa: They never go there again, even though Melissa’s not there.

Cameron: I guess once Melissa’s been in there it’s just a -

Deepa: It's just a toxic zone. Yeah.

Deepa: Ugh, Wren. Fucking Wren.

Cameron: God, it's just - so completely inappropriate, obviously, but, also, what the fuck are you doing? Giving a teenage girl in a bikini a massage –

Deepa: Mhm, bursa sac!

Cameron: - bursa sac! And then - the thing is, if you were just doing that to do it, when your fiancé came in you’d be like, “Oh, yeah, I was talking to your sister.” You wouldn't stop - like “I’m just trying to like help”, you know, oh my god!

Deepa: Yeah! Well, there's, like - even from the first two scenes, there’s already this sense that Spencer and Wren are trying to have secrets about together Melissa, right? Because they're joking about her, or he's apologizing for her, and they're talking about the family, and - it's like Wren and Spencer are allied already in a really weird way, because he has just met these people!

Cameron: He just met them. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. But it's also weird how the show tries to make Spencer seem like an equal part of it. Like - when she's lounging. It’s so funny when she lounges –

Cameron: “Seductively”.

Deepa: - yeah, and her legs are up –

Cameron: It's the seductive shirt that Hanna picked out for her!

Deepa: Yeah! Yeah. And then the bikini, where - I don't - where are they even going swimming? Are they supposed to have a pool that we never see?

Cameron: There’s a hot tub, right? Don't they have a hot tub that we never see?

Deepa: I think you’re right, because there are definitely multiple scenes with them in swimsuits.

Cameron: I've always assumed there is a hot tub.

Deepa: Yeah. Huh. You know what I just realized? Is the kitchen that they're standing in the same kitchen as the Hastings have later? I don't know that it was. They may change the set. Because that kitchen is so familiar, but I feel like it looks different.

Cameron: Oh, I didn't think about that.

Deepa: Like the doors - like the doors out to the yard were in a different place. I'm, like - I think it was different. It just occurred to me.

Cameron: Interesting.

Deepa: Yeah. Because – the Marin house is the same. The Montgomery house too. I don’t know about Emily’s, they didn’t show much of it.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: The kitchen…

Deepa: Oh, the kitchen.

Deepa: Okay, the next infuriating person I want to talk about is Byron Montgomery.

Cameron: Ahhhh! I gave him worse parent of the episode.

Deepa: I also gave him worst parent! Oh, yeah, for our faithful listeners: we're going to do worst parent/best parent, and worst outfit/best outfit for every episode. Because those things are very important.

Cameron: They're very important. Because they change, you know, they fluctuate. Sometimes.

Deepa: Yeah. But the whole - like the way Byron is trying to act so “nice” to Aria about this whole thing, and so, like, sincere. I mean, that's why I hate Byron so much, right? He's like - he thinks he's a good guy. We’ve talked about this a lot. A lot of the other dads know that they're not good guys - I mean, arguably Hanna's dad thinks he's a good guy too -

Cameron: Yeah, probably.

Deepa - but not the same way that Byron does. And the show thinks he's a good guy too, because he ends up being happy! He ends up remarrying Ella!

Cameron: Yeah, like, it's this thing where - she's painted as kind of a bratty teen for mentioning it when he was like, “I was just trying to ask you how you were doing.”

Deepa: Yeah yeah yeah.

Cameron: “I’m just – how are you doing?”

Deepa: Yeah, exactly. “How could you imply that I don't love your mom, even though I cheated on her with my student? And you saw it?”

Cameron: And you saw it! “I made a mistake.”

Deepa: I am excited for Meredith – that’s her name, right?

Cameron: I think so. She's on the chaotic list.

Deepa: She's definitely on the chaotic list. I think she only doesn't make top because she is not around as much.

Cameron: Yeah, if they'd have given her a little more space to do some more things, she could have been bumped up.

Deepa: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, speaking of chaotic, the reason I didn't give Ashley best parent –

Cameron: I knowwww, which, I wanted to! I wanted to.

Deepa: I feel like for the rest of the show we're almost always going to be giving it to Ashley, so I think it's okay.

Cameron: Ooh but she is chaotic as fuck!

Deepa: Yeah! Ashley!! Like? It's shoplifting! I don't think it warrants - like especially now that we know the history of Wilden creeping on her?

Cameron: Mhm.

Deepa: How did that warrant that? I mean, I know that because of the history of Wilden creeping on her, there is an element of, like, power, there, that he is using on her.

Cameron: Absolutely! Yeah.

Deepa: But she's still an adult who could just pay the fine and do whatever community – like, you know, Hanna is a rich girl in a rich town, she would be doing community service.

Cameron: Yeah. It doesn't warrant fucking him.

Deepa: Fucking him, and then having that over your head!

Cameron: And, like, the look that she gives Hanna –

Deepa: The look! The fucking look! It’s so weird.

Cameron: - as he's, like, leading her up the stairs - I was like, what is that??

Deepa: It’s so bad. It's, like, kind of accusatory? Like, “Look what I’m doing for you.”

Cameron: Yeah!

Deepa: It's just so weird because that's not usually the relationship they have. Ashley continues to do chaotic things, but she usually takes responsibility for them.

Cameron: Or just doesn't bring Hanna into it? I don't know, it was just, like. That -

Deepa: Very weird and honestly, very inappropriate, and kind of creepy and shitty, you know, which is not something I think we're going to say about Ashley very often.

Cameron: No, we're pretty pro-Ashley most of the time.

Deepa: I just remembered that - I was watching it on HBO Max, and I remembered that my profile picture is Ashley Marin.

Cameron: And you’re like, “Damn it, not this episode!”

Deepa: Not this episode! But also, that is because they don't offer Emily as an option for one of the characters.

Cameron: Riiiight.

Deepa: Yeah. They have all the other Liars, including Alison, and also Ezra and Ashley Marin, but they don't have Emily!

Cameron: They have Ezra??

Deepa: They have Ezra! But not Emily! She's one of the main characters, and the only one of color! Well, because the show thinks Spencer’s white, even though Troian is not.

Cameron: Oooof. Jesus.

Cameron: Who did you give best parent to?

Deepa: I gave it to Ella.

Cameron: Same, yeah.

Deepa: I mean, Ella is usually great. So, you know, she's a good fall-back when Ashley is fucking up.

Cameron: Yeah, she's just very there. She got more screen time, I think, than most other parents, and was just like joking and supportive. Yeah, she’s pretty good, except for where we get to some things down the road.

Deepa: Yeah, that is true. But that's a while away.

Cameron: It is a while away.

Deepa: Yeah. But I think - I mean, it's weird and disappointing to me, but also not that surprising, that in this episode Ashley falls in the category of adults who are super inappropriate with children and about children. I mean – teenagers, but they’re children, they’re all, what, 15 or 16 in the beginning? And that just continues! Like not just adults, but authority figure adults. It happens with so many parents. It happens with teachers, cops, other family members –

Cameron: Other family members.

Deepa – coaches.

Cameron: Coaches! But yeah, it just happens with anyone it could possibly happen with.

Cameron: I just had a thought. And maybe we've talked about this before, because we've had so many conversations about PLL. But like how Aria's family is set up to be these casual, permissive, “treat your –“

Deepa: “- kids like your peers”?

Cameron: - yeah, instead of your property, or whatever Emily said.

Deepa: Oh my god, yeah.

Cameron: Like, is that why - did they write the Ezra stuff, as like…

Deepa: Oh, as like a lesson for what happens when you’re permissive with your kids?

Cameron: I don't know, when you like respect them as humans?

Deepa: Oooh. Ooof. Oh, god, that is - I think you're right. I think that is how they wrote it!

Cameron: That's fucked.

Deepa: Because Aria is "seen as an adult" –

Cameron: Right, ugh.

Deepa – which is a theme that will come up a lot with Ezra. He keeps talking about her like that as if she's somehow different from the other teenagers, and more mature. Yeah, I think you're right, I think - yeah, there is a link there for sure.

Cameron: Mm.

Deepa: Weird. And even just the supposed equivalence between Byron and Meredith and Ezra and Aria, right? Like obviously Byron and Meredith is also abusive -

Cameron: Right.

Deepa: - because she's a student that he's her professor, but they are adults!

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: It's not the same level of all…this.

Deepa: Okay, while we're on Ezra, I just…every time I watch the first - I mean, every time I watch him in any of the first season - it's just so horrifying to me, knowing what he knows at this point and what he's trying to do.

Cameron: Mhmmmm.

Deepa: Right? Okay, I read this article at some point - I don't know if it was about PLL, but it was earlier in the show, probably. And it mentioned other shows that do teacher-student bullshit. And this article - I don't know who wrote it, but they were talking about how there is this kind of narrative where two people meet, and one of them thinks the other is an adult, even though they're not. And they have some kind of fling, and then they find out later. Like this happens with Ezra and Alison, too, for real. That narrative is reinforcing this idea that that it's okay if that happens, right, because you just “made a mistake” –

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: - and there's this other sense of, like, children can sometimes be grown ups because someone mistook them for a grown-up. I feel like I have something here, and I'm not quite hitting it, but – the way that that's completely broken by what we know about Ezra right now, that he knows exactly who Aria is! That he is there to stalk her and make a connection because he is writing a book on Alison, who is another teenager that he, I guess, “genuinely”, quote unquote, mistook for an adult. He's using the same playbook on Aria that he had with Alison. And he is there to use her, right? And we don't know this for a while, but when we know it, it is not treated like as horrifying as it should be! Like it is for like two episodes, and then he gets shot, I guess, so who cares?

Cameron: UGH. We care.

Deepa: We care! We care so much. The show does not care.

Cameron: The show does not care! Because yeah, to me, that undermines any possible - not necessarily excuse, but like any possible rationalizing or - yeah, “two people just meet”. No.

Deepa: Well, I think it proves - like what I was trying to say with the article is that it proves that is bullshit, that this “accidental meeting” narrative is not one that actually makes sense or is appropriate, right? And this is reinforcing that. Which is why it's so hard to watch that scene -

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: - because of how fake it is, and how horrifying it is, even more so than – well, I do think there's a sense that we're not supposed to think it's horrifying until we find that out about Ezra. So there's that weird play, too, right? Like it's supposed to be okay now? Because they’re “in love”.

Cameron: Yeah, sure.

Deepa: Ugh.

Cameron: I just like - there's so many moments where it just could have been the end of those two.

Deepa: Yup. Yup. Yup.

Cameron: Like the first conversation they have - I mean. I guess there probably can't be, actually, now that I’m saying it, because he's –

Deepa: - because of his agenda. 

Cameron: Yeah, he has this agenda, and he would be the person responsible for ending it. And he is not interested in doing so.

Deepa: But they do try to make it seem like Aria is the one who - because she's the one who says it should still happen first, and then he kisses her at a funeral where she's feeling sad, and instead of taking advantage of her vulnerability as the narrative, it's like, “Oh, he's helping make her feel better.” You know what I mean?

Cameron: Yeah!

Deepa: He kisses her at the funeral!

Cameron: Which is - so bad.

Deepa: Horrifying! Horrifying.

Cameron: And yes, I think she is into it, and then, like afterwards, her face is just like, “Fuck, I'm at a funeral for my friend.” You know, it's just like, what is even happening.

Deepa: Yeah! Ahhhh! Oh man.

Cameron: I think it's kind of weird that nothing - I guess not nothing happens at the funeral, but kind of nothing happens at the funeral? Like the only thing that happens is Jenna shows up, and everyone's like, “Oh my god, Jenna!” And then after the funeral, they get texts.

Deepa: And Wilden.

Cameron: And Wilden. But there's nothing like dramatic at the funeral.

Deepa: No! Not at all. Not at all. And there isn’t any weird stuff between the DiLaurentises and other people which happens later… I mean, I guess maybe they won't fight at the funeral.

Cameron: Maybe!

Deepa: Yeah. And also there's that same picture of her that we see over and over again, which is funny because she really is 13.

Cameron: I'm going to move on to clothes really quickly. So I think this will be probably not be the case going forward, but I didn't hate any of Aria's outfits.

Deepa: Exactly.

Cameron: Shocking!

Deepa: They don't get into Aria's real fashion for a little while - like this is the toned-down version of Aria’s fashion, and I like it.

Cameron: It's just, like, a couple of different interesting pieces going on.

Deepa: There’s a few necklaces, but they're not, like, overboard.

Cameron: No.

Deepa: She’s not trying to make her neck a statement, but she's closer to it.

Cameron: She’s closer to making her neck the statement!

Cameron: So I personally voted the Yellow Top as worst.

Deepa: Oh my god, absolutely. Yeah. I was going to start out with talking about the Yellow Top because it's the first thing that happens. But also it needed to be in the fashion section, because the Yellow Top is just going to be everywhere. Everyone is wearing it. And it's not a good top!

Cameron: It’s not! It would even be better if it like was just a plain shirt, actually.

Deepa: Yeah. It is like a top that I might have worn in middle school, but these people are supposed to be in a different fashion era than we were. Mid-2000s or early-2000s 13-year-olds would wear this.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: And, like - she's supposed to be so fashion that she shouldn't be wearing what I, a nerd, wore in middle school.

Cameron: A nerd?!

Deepa: A nerd!

Cameron: It's such a funny top, and the fact that everyone owns - like it just gets bought, and everyone has the same shirt -

Deepa: It's like - the traveling shirt -

Cameron: The sisterhood! 

Deepa: Because one of the people is actually a sibling!

Cameron: That’s true! LOL.

Deepa: But not Bethany.

Cameron: Not Bethany.

Deepa: I had to think for a second if Bethany is related to anyone, but I don’t think she is.

Cameron: I don’t think Bethany is related to anyone. That's whose body they dug up, right?

Deepa: That's whose body they dug up. Every time we watch this we are trying to remember who's body it is. But it's not - oh my god, what's her name? The other one who's in the Doll House with them, who they find out is missing?

Cameron: Sara Harvey?

Deepa: Sara! Yes, it's not Sara Harvey. Sara Harvey was not wearing that top that day, right?

Cameron: Maybe!

Deepa: I don't remember! I know that Charlotte was, and I know that Bethany was, and Alison. But I don't know about Sara.

Cameron: I don't think Sara Harvey was wearing the Yellow Top.

Deepa: I don't think she was there that night.

Cameron: Yeah, her thing happened separately, even though it was like parallel.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Hmm. Interesting.

Deepa: Did you have a specific Aria outfit that you liked?

Cameron: I just found myself pleasantly surprised with all of them?

Deepa: Yeah! She has a nice leather jacket… I really like the one – well, unfortunately, when she goes to the fucking bar.

Cameron: It's such a good outfit! It's a cute little dress, it’s got some boots…yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, exactly. Ugh. Ughhhh.

Cameron: It’s annoying.

Deepa: Well, Aria – again, this is like the parents, where we're starting off the ones that we’re not actually going to continue to like.

Deepa: Oooh, I did have one other competitor, even though I really liked Aria’s outfit: I did like Spencer when she's in her vest and tie in her bedroom.

Cameron: I also wrote down the Spencer vest and tie! Because I was like, that’s a good moment.

Deepa: That’s a good moment! I want to wear that. I have worn that! But I do love how the tie is really loose on purpose, like it's not actually business… it's like, business casual doesn't actually mean business casual, but that's a casual version of business.

Cameron: That's so funny. Yeah. And it's - she doesn't wear it, it's a very short scene, right, that she's wearing the tie? It's just to spy on Melissa and Wren.

Deepa: Yeah, she's wearing it in her bedroom. It's like – again, I guess, something I would do in my room? Especially when we lived together during the days of the early pandemic, I probably did that at one point when we were just in our apartment.

Cameron: That's true.

Deepa: I feel like that’s different than what Spencer was doing.

Cameron: Yeah, but I liked that look a lot, it was really good.

Deepa: Yeah, I mean, you know that Spencer's looks are some of my favorites, so.

Cameron: Speaking of vests, I very much enjoyed – well, the outfit itself wasn't amazing, but Maya’s denim vest –

Deepa: YES.

Cameron: - and just her whole vibe.

Deepa: Her whole vibe! Her hair is so cute…everything about Maya is just great. And yeah, just like - the “so I’m corrupting you” scene is so perfect.

Cameron: It's amazing! Like, “Oh, I've never had a jock friend. You'll be my first.”

Deepa: “You’ll be my first”! It was a lot flirtier than I remembered – well, that scene I remembered being flirty. But also at one point they're just walking down the sidewalk together, and their hands are just almost - like they're almost holding hands –

Cameron: Yes!

Deepa: - and I didn’t remember noticing that before. And I do love how they set it up very obviously, you know, because you don't always get that. Like - you do, probably, now, but at the time PLL was coming out, in, what - I don't even know what year it started. Because we didn't start watching it until there were a few seasons out already. So it was maybe 2011. I should probably look this up.

Cameron: Yeah, for the fans.

Deepa: For us, as well!

Cameron: For accuracy!

Deepa: Yeah, whenever that was coming out - okay, it was 2010 to 2017. Wow. Hmm.

Cameron: 2010 to 2017? Wow.

Deepa: Okay, that's almost been as many years that it's over as it was airing. That's wild. I thought it was later that it ended. But yeah, I mean, I feel like this was there - oh, we forgot to introduce – well, I, this is on me - I forgot to introduce why the podcast is named “Don’t Forget the Chickpeas” -

Cameron: Great.

Deepa: - which is our, you know, tribute and gratitude towards Heather Hogan, who was originally worked for what is now the TERF site (it wasn't at the time), AfterEllen, writing the reviews for Pretty Little Liars, and then moved to Autostraddle. The only thing I feel bad about with that move is that a lot of the original reviews seem to be lost to the Internet. I'm very tempted to email Heather Hogan –

Cameron: Oh my god.

Deepa: - just to be like, “So do you have those reviews?” Because I, like, thought, “Maybe she has a website where she puts all those that the TERF site took down.” But yeah, I'm tempted because they're so good. And I think, some of the early ones. So - yeah, we love her reviews. Her reviews like our part of our narrative of Pretty Little Liars, to the point that we sometimes can't remember what's in this show, and what's in a Heather Hogan review –

Cameron: Yes!

Deepa: - including the line “don't forget the chickpeas”, which happens in the show, but it's not that exact sentence. It’s when Ezra's creeping on Aria and sending her out to buy ingredients, even though he already has them at home. So we love chickpeas. We love Heather Hogan. We do hate Ezra –

Cameron: Absolutely.

Deepa: - but, that is the name of the podcast, and those are our feelings about Heather Hogan, who is awesome.

Cameron: Yes, and I think - I don't know what year this was, because I'm not good at those things, but one time Deepa made me a birthday present that is a cookbook that is just chickpea recipes, and it is called “Don't Forget the Chickpeas”, and I use it –

Deepa: I worked really hard on it.

Cameron: It's great! It’s Deepa’s takes on different songs, but sometimes putting chickpeas in there, sometimes not -

Deepa: I’m going to say this was 2015 because I was in New York. And so yeah, it was 2015, that birthday.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Awww, this is probably not going to include video, but Cameron’s showing it!

Cameron: I don't think we're including video, that seems too –

Deepa: - that seems like too much. I don't know if you wanted to share a recipe today or not?

Cameron: Oh, yeah. Well, I think one of my favorite ones in here, aside from the Sivarajan Family Hummus recipe –

Deepa: I don't think we should share that one! I don't think my parents would be okay with sharing the secrets!

Cameron: Exactly, I'm keeping that - I'm referencing it, I'm not letting anyone into that.

Deepa: Only Cameron gets to know.

Cameron: I feel very special. So that one and this one are probably the ones I use the most. And this is the roasted cauliflower and chickpeas with mustard.

Deepa: Yes! Yes.

Cameron: It's so good, and it's so easy.

Deepa: It made me like mustard.

Cameron: Whoa!

Deepa: I didn’t like mustard before! I think before that recipe I’d only ever had mustard on my hot dogs, and I still don't like that. I don't know, whatever the combination of flavors is with hot dogs, I don't like, but I like other things with mustard now thanks to that recipe.

Cameron: So you just eat naked hot dogs.

Deepa: I do eat just naked hot dogs, yes. I mean, okay, if there are pickled jalapenos, that is ideal.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, I like them with toppings that aren't always there, because I don't like relish either, I hate ketchup. But – why are we talking about hot dogs?

Cameron: It's going to happen, we just have to –

Deepa: Is it because I’m just a lesbian who wants a hot dog?

Cameron: Oh my god!

Deepa: I’m not a lesbian, guys. I am very bisexual. But someone did once say I was a lesbian who wanted a hot dog.

Cameron: Which is just an amazing line, right?

Deepa: It is! It is. And it's one of our best friends who said that.

Cameron: And so sometimes you are a lesbian who just wants a hot dog, right? That's just what happens.

Deepa: That’s true! My sexuality can be fluid too.

Cameron: I also meant like the general you, you know –

Deepa: Oh, okay, okay.

Cameron: - sometimes people, it just happens, you know.

Deepa: For sure! Oh my god, okay, we've gotten way off track.

Cameron: How do we share a recipe out loud?

Deepa: I don't think we do. I think we put them in the…show notes?

Cameron: Great!

Deepa: We don't even know about putting this, but we can –

Cameron: Well, where podcasts are found.

Deepa: Exactly. If you couldn’t tell, this is our first podcast, even though in the early days of the pandemic, we talked all the time about what kind of podcast we would make if we were to make a podcast, and we never came up with Pretty Little Liars until, like, two years later.

Cameron: So embarrassing.

Deepa: But I also think it made sense not to do it when we were living together? And now it's like a nice way for us to, you know, hang out while not in the same place.

Cameron: Yeah. Different countries, even.

Deepa: Different countries! True, true. Yeah. Yeah, you can't get any Taco Bell.

Cameron: 45 min away, it's a whole thing.

Deepa: Target too?

Cameron: No Target.

Deepa: No Target.

Cameron: Really struggling out here.

Deepa: I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

Cameron: It’s okay. I just have one note about the mustard. So I'd been - you're supposed to use two different mustards, right, and I just hadn't gotten around to buying anything other than Dijon, because I'm obsessed with Dijon –

Deepa: Yes, yes you are.

Cameron: - I use it for most of my mustard purposes, like, you know, salad dressing, etc. And then I finally got another mustard recently, and then I made it with the different mustards, and I was like, oh, yeah, there's something else here that I was missing. So it's important.

Deepa: Very important! I have the same thing, because now I’m living with my parents, because I have Long COVID, and my dad only keeps one type of mustard. So if I am making it – like, we wouldn't really use the other type if I bought one, so usually I only make it with one type.

Cameron: Just like - another mustard, another flavor layer…yeah.

Deepa: So good. I'm trying to remember where I got that recipe from.

Cameron: It says OneHungryMama.com.

Deepa: What?!

Cameron: Because you cite your sources, of course.

Deepa: I do cite my sources!! Okay, people, you have to understand – “people”. Listeners! I’m trying to call you “listeners” instead of “people”. You have to understand that this is a handwritten book.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Well, I guess it's not, actually, I did type out sections, but they are pasted into a notebook. So I made an effort, I guess, to cite my sources, which I didn't remember! OneHungryMama.com?

Cameron: Yeah!

Deepa: That seems very appropriate for this! At one point doesn't Aria make Ella a dating profile that's like Hot Mama?

Cameron: No, it's exactly Hot Mama! Which is so funny.

Deepa: So funny. Oh my god.

Cameron: Yeah, I mean, if anyone ever ate in the show, they could maybe use OneHungryMama.com, but that's not an appropriate –

Deepa: That’s true, they do not eat. Well, the Montgomeries sometimes order takeout.

Cameron: That's true. Or, like, someone makes a salad, sometimes.

Deepa: Yeah, I feel like the Hastingses and the Marins make salads. It looks like some lettuce with croutons on it was the entire salad - I'm not even sure that salad was dressed.

Cameron: And Hanna picked off the croutons.

Deepa: Oh no! Oh god.

Cameron: Which is just a devastating moment. It's like, Jesus Christ.

Deepa: Hanna. Hanna! Ugh.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. I don't know if Emily eats. She’s a jock, so maybe she eats?

Cameron: I hope she eats! She's a jock!

Cameron: I - Maya and Emily talking about their boyfriends? Hilarious.

Deepa: So funny! I forgot that Maya was - I don't think they ever mentioned him again. But Ben – we do have to see Ben.

Cameron: That’s unfortunate.

Deepa: Yeah, and Hanna’s boyfriend, I’ve forgotten his name - the pastor’s son or whatever? The first pastor, not Pastor Ted!

Cameron: It’s not...Steve?

Deepa: No, it’s not Steve, it’s...Sean?

Cameron: Sean! Okay.

Deepa: Yes.

Cameron: Another one of my family members.

Deepa: Yes! Yes.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I'm sorry, that just reminded me of how we and our friends have all dated people with the names of the Liars...

Cameron: Oh god! It is funny.

Deepa: It's very funny! Among our group of friends we have people who have dated a Hannah, an Allie, and an Emily. We don't have an Aria or a Spencer, so someone needs to complete the circle with an Aria or a Spencer.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I don't know any Arias or Spencers, so I don't know who to set up.

Cameron: I mean, I don't know what we're counting for this? Because I did go dig through my list of everyone I've ever had sex with, and there was a Spencer on that.

Deepa: Oh yeah, we talked about this.

Cameron: But I don't think it counts, it's not the same level.

Deepa: Yeah, I think you have to have dated someone. Yeah. And I think we talked about some other people that are not Liars who have names that we’ve dated, but I don't think that counts either. But you know, like Sarah.

Cameron: Yeah. So if anyone is dating an Aria or a Spencer, let us know.

Deepa: We'll be friends with you.

Cameron: We’ll be friends with you!

Deepa: Oh my god.

Cameron: Oh my gosh. We're hilarious.

Deepa: We’re so funny.

Deepa: Do you think we have anything left to talk about for the pilot?

Cameron: Let me check my notes.

Deepa: Oh, I have one more thing: “I love Beyonce’s new video.” “Yeah, maybe a little too much, Em.”

Cameron: That is one of the best lines!

Deepa: One of the first lines, and it’s so good. “Maybe a little too much, Em.”

Cameron: It's amazing.

Deepa: So Cameron and I first watched Pretty Little Liars starting in 2013, I’m pretty sure, because we were living together at that time. We caught up on the first three seasons that were out, and then we started watching it live, and we watched the rest of the show live, plus all the spin-offs live. We didn't do another rewatch until 2021 during the pandemic. Somehow, we didn't do it in 2020, we were too busy watching other weird things?

Cameron: We don't need to talk about those things.

Deepa: We don’t need to talk about what we were watching. Well, we had some good shows! We watched Friday Night Lights.

Cameron: That’s true. Incredible show.

Deepa: So yeah. Yeah, there are shows we don’t need to talk about. Yeah. So we did our first rewatch in 2021, and that was the first time we really understood how gay Alison is the entire time!

Cameron: Oh my god!

Deepa: There was this realization we had, because - at some point when we were watching it live, I felt like - in the last two seasons it felt like the show had forgotten that she was queer. Because she gets married to what's his face, and she and Emily don't ever talk about their shit, until they do, right?

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: But watching it all together…no. No, she was - she's been - I mean she's probably bisexual, but gay in the general sense, she was so gay the whole time.

Cameron: And like specifically so gay for Emily!

Deepa: For Emily!

Cameron: Just, like, whoa!

Deepa: FOR. EMILY! Yeah, it's not evident in this first scene, but I think about that every time I see “maybe a little too much, Em”. It's just like her driving force throughout the entire show is her love for Emily. Which is wild.

Cameron: Yeah, and it is wild that we didn't notice it until recently.

Deepa: It's because we didn't know where the show was going! Like knowing that they get together in the end, I think, makes a difference. And also we're watching it like – live, meaning, we don't really get – Alison is so in and out, right?

Cameron: That's true.

Deepa: And, okay, when we were watching it, we still didn't even know if Alison was really alive.

Cameron: Mhm.

Deepa: I think it makes sense that if you're watching it progressively instead of as a binge watch, you might not notice that.

Cameron: Oh, another person we haven't touched on is Mona!

Deepa: Mona! Oh my god!

Cameron: We don't get a lot of Mona in the pilot, but –

Deepa: Yeah, but we will get more, we will get more. Mona is so important. Mona is so evil and we love her so much.

Cameron: We love her so much! I do love trying to think about how she's doing these things – spoiler, Mona’s A! – and I just love thinking about that, her just, like, calculating, and –

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about it because Aria is the first one to get an A text, in English. And Mona is there. So I was kind of trying to watch to see if she had her phone out.

Cameron: Oh!

Deepa: Probably not! They probably weren't together enough to do that.

Cameron: They probably didn't know at that point.

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah. What is that they call her genius-like perception or whatever? Do you know what I’m talking about? I guess we'll get to it.

Cameron: What?

Deepa: Okay - when they find out that it's her, and they institutionalize her, the way that they talk about how she was able to do all of this was like…this weird term that they use…

Cameron: Oh, she was in like a hyper-reality or something?

Deepa: Yes! Yes, something like that. Yeah, exactly. Which is why she was near omniscient, I guess?

Cameron: Yeah, she was just operating on a different plane!

Deepa: Yeah, exactly!

Cameron: Oh, Mona.

Deepa: Oh man! Oh man. I will say just to sort of get it right off the bat that another thing I do hate, and am angry with Mona with, which is the way she treats Lucas, right, which started with Alison.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: So that's like the one Mona thing.

Cameron: I think – one of the two Mona things, I would say.

Deepa: Oh, what’s the other one?

Cameron: The other one is the murder –

Deepa: OH, oh, sorry you're right, I forgot!

Cameron: There are two things –

Deepa: There are two bad things. Mona!

Cameron: One of them is so bad.

Deepa: One of them is so bad! I'm sorry, I forgot! Because when we started rewatching, I genuinely didn't remember who killed Charlotte.

Cameron: Yeah! But it's Mona, y’all.

Deepa: It’s Mona. Fuck that, Mona! Why?

Cameron: It’s so shitty!

Deepa: It’s so shitty. It’s so shitty. Okay, going to move away from that, because it's horrible. Ugh, I forgot about that.

Cameron: Yeah. So those are the two things that Mona does that we do not like.

Deepa: That's true. That's true.

Deepa: One other person who didn't get a ton of screen time, but that we were going to talk disproportionately about in this rewatch, is Mike Montgomery.

Cameron: Mike Montgomery! He's got to go to lacrosse!

Deepa: He’s got to go to lacrosse! We love Mike Montgomery.

Cameron: We do.

Deepa: We had a whole theory when we were watching it the first time that Mike was A, and we kind of loved it. But we love him even though he isn’t A. And we love him and Mona!

Cameron: Yes!

Deepa: It's sad that that doesn’t continue, honestly.

Cameron: Ugh, that is sad. Yeah, I was just excited to see him.

Deepa: I was looking for Jason, too, but Jason isn't in this episode, and it's the wrong Jason too. He's not a lesbian in the first season.

Cameron: He’s not a lesbian, he’s, like, business?

Deepa: He's very business, yeah. Which is funny, because they still have this narrative of him - I mean, I guess he's like business "turned himself around" or whatever from addiction, but they don't really talk about addiction with the first Jason. Right? Maybe they do a little bit. I don't know.

Cameron: I feel like there's a lot of like alluding to, like, “he was bad”, but maybe not exactly what that means?

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah, the way they treat addiction, we forgot about that too!

Cameron: Oh!

Deepa: I mean, we hate so many different things, right? Like we just kind of hit the big ones.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: But yeah, addiction too, especially like -

Cameron: Oh my god, Spencer's addiction buddy or counselor – just another person to be inappropriate with a teen.

Deepa: Oh my god. Is his name Dean?

Cameron: I think his name is Dean, yeah.

Deepa: He shows up for like five minutes. He shows up for five minute and is inappropriate with her.

Cameron: Just like off the bat!

Deepa: Just, like, it’s all the adults, even if they show up for five minutes.

Cameron: They just find a way.

Deepa: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Deepa: I think that might be everything I had in my notes, so.

Cameron: Cool! I think same.

Deepa: I think we have to decide if for the next episodes, if we want to do one for each, or if we want to do like multiple episodes. So we’ll have to think about that. Because I think the next - I want to see what the next episode is. Is it “The Jenna -”

Cameron: It’s called “The Jenna Thing”. Can we watch two so we don't have to only talk about that?

Deepa: Yes, let's do that, let’s do that. That sounds good.

Cameron: Because I’m over “the Jenna thing”.

Deepa: I’m over “the Jenna thing” too. Absolutely.

Cameron: How do we sign off?

Deepa: Oooh. Um. Thank you for listening. Act normal, bitches!

Cameron: Yes!

Deepa: Is that an okay sign-off?

Cameron: That’s good. Okay, bye.

Deepa: Bye!