Episodes 2.08 & 2.09: "It's Too Late For That"

Dylan is back (yay!) and coincidentally so is mouse man (boo) for our discussions of episodes 2.08, “Save the Date”, and 2.09, “Picture This”. We talk about ableism, mustard, staring at your friends’ lips, and which Liars have the most medically invasive stuff happen to them. We fill Dylan in on the wild shit that happens in the final season of the show, and Cameron tries to convince Dylan that PLL has ginger representation. Did you hear that Emily has a hole in her stomach?

Our awesome theme song is composed by Ashok R. Chandran! You can find his other work at his website.

Transcript: Read it on Buzzsprout!

Chickpeas Oh My Gosh! One-Pot Chickpea Shakshuka

Fashion Analysis: Our best and worst outfits!

Sports Corner with Cameron

• Steroids discourse is weird moralizing shit – check out Sport in Capitalist Society by Tony Collins
• The other book that Cameron alludes to but doesn’t name is Loving Sports When They Don’t Love You Back by Jessica Luther and Kavitha Davidson
• US track star Sha’carri Richardson was banned from the 2021 Olympics for testing positive for THC, part of a long history of anti-Blackness at the Olympics
• Turns out Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva was eventually banned from competing for four years because of a failed drug test, after initially being cleared of responsibility

Things We Referenced Actually Related to PLL: 

• The final season! What a mess! 
• How Lucas was responsible for the creepy upcoming Emily massage

Things We Referenced Completely Unrelated to PLL: 

• “They’re all of me!” in Love Actually 
• The pottery scene in Ghost can’t be ruined by Ezra
• The actor who plays Ezra’s brother being in Faking It

If you enjoyed this podcast (or even if you didn't), please consider donating to help Rozan and Aboud, two young people in Gaza, to survive and rebuild their lives with their families. You can donate here.

Transcript

Copy

Deepa: Welcome back, everyone, to Don't Forget the Chickpeas, your favorite Pretty Little Liars podcast. I'm Deepa.

Cameron: I'm Cameron.

Deepa: And our favorite guest is back today on the show! Will you please introduce yourself, favorite guest?

Dylan: Hi everyone! My name is Dylan. My pronouns are he/him. And hi, bitches! I think we established last time that I can say that while on this podcast.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. Cameron gave you permission.

Cameron: I gave you permission, as a representative of cis women everywhere.

Deepa: Great. Glad we got that established. We're so happy to have Dylan back. Today we're talking about episodes eight and nine of the first season. Eight is called “Save the Date”! And nine is called “Picture This”.

Cameron: “Save the Date”. I feel like, usually the episodes titles aren't that obvious? And this one is just like…

Deepa: Can we start there? Cause that scene was hilarious.

Cameron: Oh my gosh!

Deepa: The most awkward.
 
 

Dylan: Yeah, that she immediately used it at the coaster.

Deepa: Incredible.

Dylan: She’s like, fuck this.

Deepa: It's like – Emily being there, they're already having, like, Tom do his walk of shame in the morning…and then the mail comes.

Cameron: In six weeks!

Deepa: Six weeks! He’s getting married in six weeks! 

Cameron: What kind of save the date is that?

Dylan: That's what I wrote! 

Deepa: I think they just said “save the date” instead of invitation, because, like, it sounds better, you know, like you couldn't have an episode called “Wedding Invitation”. That'd be weird.

Dylan: [whispers] “Wedding Invitation”.

Cameron: I guess. Tt just seems sloppy? Like. I think Isabelle's probably a WASP, right? Everyone on this show is – most everyone on this show is. And that just seems like improper.

Deepa: True. 

Dylan: So, as I've told you all before, but for the listeners – also shout-out to the one in Missouri. We don't know who you are, but hope you're enjoying it.

Deepa and Cameron: Mississippi, Mississippi.

Dylan: Mississippi. Oh, well, one of those M states, so sorry. I lived in Kansas, so I just was Kansas centric. Okay. So I would have lost my shit if like that was if I was Hanna's mom – Ashley is her name, right? 

Deepa: Yes.

Dylan: Yeah. I would have been like, “Fuck you, dude! Get out of my house!” Like she like, remained so calm for her daughter, and like she's just like such a strong, incredible woman. Like my god! I would have lost my fucking shit. I would have been like, “You're ugly, and you're doing this to me? Get the fuck out of my house!”

Deepa: I do love that when she breaks up with him it is for her, right? She's like, “I can't be with a man like you who's indecisive,” not like, “I'm letting you go to marry your fiancé,” or whatever, right? Like.

Cameron: No.

Deepa: No. Why would you want to be with Tom? Other than like nostalgia, I guess.

Cameron: Yeah, like, she's explicitly like, “I've grown, and he hasn’t. And that’s not going to cut it.” Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, and, “I don’t actually want this.” 

Dylan: The part where he like drops his key off. I was like, when did he get a key, like? When did that even happen?

Cameron: He’s had one. It’s ridiculous.

Deepa: And he leaves without saying by eto Hanna that time, too, like it's so obvious what he was here for.

Cameron: Oh my god! Then he just keeps being like, “Why won't she call me?” to Ashley, right?

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, exactly like, “Oh, she's gotta come for the fitting!” Like.

Dylan: Oh, yeah, I was like, okay. So first off, starting off the episode, I took an edible, like –

Deepa: As you do.

Dylan: – as I did last time, to our listeners. And I accidently clicked Spanish. So it was like in Spanish. And I was just like, hat did I do? Why is everyone talking in Spanish? So I had to change it over. So that was hard, and really, so difficult to navigate for me when I was high. But I just was like so mad. That whole scene was so funny, because, like first off, like Emily's doing crunches on the kitchen floor, and then she's like, “Ew, sugary cereal,” and I adored that Hanna was like, “Fuck off, I like my cocoa puffs.”

Deepa: It's bad news when Hanna is eating sugary cereal, and Emily won't drink more than like a fifth of a cup of orange juice to “watch her sugar intake”, quote unquote. What? Emily! It's orange juice!

Dylan: Yeah. And then in the second episode, they also talk about like, “Oh, you're not eating enough after her ulcer incident,” they said, like, “licking salt doesn't count as a meal,” and I'm just like, yikes.

Cameron: Yeah, it’s wild to have Hanna be mild voice of reason on food.

Deepa: Ridiculous.

Cameron: Yeah. Ashley, throwing out all the food in their fridge because she dumped Tom. I'm like, no, you can – you can just keep it.

Deepa: Don't do that!

Cameron: Sorry, you don't need to do that.

Deepa: Don't do that, please.

Dylan: We’ve all been there.

Cameron: Dylan is shaking his head.

Deepa: I think that the beer might be fair, because I don't know that Ashley drinks beer.

Cameron: Sure.

Deepa: But the rest of it!

Dylan: That's what I did when Cameron left when she was done visiting me, and she's bought like eight different kinds of mustard to put in my fridge. I was like, she’s not even here!

Cameron: I just wanted to make sure you had mustard for when I was staying at your home.

Deepa: Apparently it didn't work, apparently.

Cameron: It worked great. I wasn't gonna stay there forever!

Deepa: Oh, just while you were staying there.

Dylan: Yeah, because your wedding is six weeks is out.

Cameron: Oh, the drama!

Deepa: “I just can't be with someone who likes that many different types of mustard.”

Dylan: Oh, shit! The truth is coming out, listeners.

Cameron: Oh my god! I think it's important to have a lot of different types of mustard for different things.

Dylan: They serve different purposes. I'm with you.

Deepa: But you threw out the mustard, Dylan! Yeah. Emily's face during that whole scene, just like the fact that they're being so messy around their daughter is one thing, but the fact that they're being messy around their daughter's best friend, who just happens to be living here? Guys, you can't even calm down for this – like you knew that Emily would be here when Tom walked down in the morning. They're teenagers! They're not gonna buy the “he slept in the guest room” thing, even if he did technically sleep in the guest room.

Dylan: Okay. But there was that like scene where they're on the car where they're waiting for Emily to just disarm the alarm system.

Cameron: Yeah.

Dylan: And I don't know. Hanna has some good jokes in that, and I didn't write them down, but I did write, “Lol, Hanna is funny.”

Cameron: About raw meat?

Dylan: Yeah, yeah, that's just like I wrote down, that “Garrett going to Jenna’s house for that raw meat, huh?” And I don't know where I was going with that, I don't know what I was trying to get at. I was high, and I regret a lot of things.

Cameron: No, they said raw meat like three times. So it's not on you.

Deepa: Yeah, it's not surprising that it embedded itself in your brain. It was weird – once again, this is just like, I think we're gonna have questions when the Halloween episode comes around. But once again they seem to be saying that Jenna grew up in Rosewood. But, like, the Halloween episode that happens this season, I think, says that Jenna just moved here like a year ago. It doesn't make any sense.

Cameron: Oh, yeah. She’s like the hot new thing! Dressed as Lady Gaga.

Deepa: Exactly, exactly. Dylan, I don't know how much you – I don't know how much you remember about that Halloween episode. It's the terrible one where Emily is wearing a racist Indigenous costume.

Cameron: Yeah.

Dylan: Oh, no, I don't. I just scrubbed that from my memory. Wait. Okay, also, to open the curtains to then fuck is bonkers. Because they are like up against the windows and surprised by the fact that she's opening the curtains. Just taking off her clothes. They’re like, “Oh, that's what the lingerie is.” To then fuck him? It's so bonkers to me, because you would close the curtains!

Deepa: You would close the curtains!

Cameron: You would, but I also – like there, I mean, there's their general ableism, right? But then there's the like desexualization of disabled folks.

Deepa: Oh my god!

Dylan: Yeah, that's true.

Deepa: Okay, say more about that.

Cameron: So like they're all so like surprised, or like grossed out, that she's a sexual being. Like that's part of their like aversion, like, “Gross. I don't wanna think about that.”

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that starts when they see her buying the lingerie many episodes ago. Right? Like, “Why is she here in like our space, buying, like sexy clothing?” What.

Cameron: Yeah. So it's just like it's such a like desexualisation, or like forced asexuality on disabled folks. That's just like, bleh.

Deepa: It's like, it's the way that they're astonished when she does anything, honestly, that they do. Like when she talks on the phone, when she plays an instrument, now when she’s having sex.

Dylan: Oh, later, when she's like “Oh, I can't wait to take a trip back up to –”

Cameron: Cape May.

Dylan: Cape May. And they're like, “She’s at the hospital??” 

Deepa: We should get into that later, too, though, like that's a whole other plot line. Actually, the surgery thing.

Cameron: God, the surgery.

Deepa: Sticking now with Garrett and Jenna. To start off with, ‘cause like, yeah. It also made me wonder how much Jenna's parents know about this? Just like, how are all these adults fucking, getting away with this in this town? Even if you don't think – even if they don't think of it as statutory rape, why are they okay with like an adult cop dating their teenager?

Dylan: I wouldn't want my child date a cop, regardless of how old they were, but especially if they’re a child.

Deepa: True, true.

Cameron: How old is Garrett?

Deepa: Definitely when we first meet him… ‘cause, like, Emily also grew up on this street, right? So definitely when we first meet him, it's like she hasn't seen him in a while, and he's coming home to his parent’s place. And he was also friends with Jason and Ian in high school. So he's gotta be their age. Yeah. So he's the same age as like Melissa, too, and Melissa's in business school. So.

Cameron: Gross

Dylan: Speaking of the age ranges of these people. Like immediate like change scene to the mouse man dude. What's his name?

Cameron: Wren.

Deepa: I was so happy that we got Wren in this episode just so I could hear Dylan call him mouse man!

Cameron: Yes. Perfect.

Dylan: First off, he still looks like a mouse. Med school didn't change him. And his ears look big. More into the mice realm for me. So I wrote down, “Oh, no, not mouse man. His ears are so big. Oh, he's finishing med school and flirting with a child. We call that a loser!” is what I wrote.

Deepa: No, he’s not in med school. He's out of med school, I've decided.

Dylan: He’s like in his residency, right?

Deepa: He's in. He's in, I'm guessing he's in his intern year which, which, in some residencies, like, it's basically the first year of residency depending on what you're doing. So, he’s done with med school. He’s a doctor. He's officially a doctor.

Cameron: Definite loser behavior. I agree, yeah.

Dylan: Definite loser behavior, also, like that timeline is pretty wild. And then I just like that she immediately pivots to the body, like Spencer immediately pivots to autopsy and like, “Where are the dead bodies kept?” And he's still trying to flirt like none of this – like, let's say they were the same age, right? Like immediate, like, okay, she's immediately talking about like dead bodies and like, “Wait so like, who would do that like? Oh, what would happen to like blunt force trauma to the head?” He's just like, he's like, “I don't know. Let's go get coffee. You're so cute!” Like that dissonance is so fucking funny.

Deepa: No, it's true, it's true, like he's literally offering to drop her off at high school like she's like, “Wren. I can't have coffee. I have to go to school.” He's like, “Great! Great! I'll drop you off.”

Cameron: Ew, the facts are there. They're right there.

Dylan: I wrote, “Spencer's literally giving boundaries.”

Deepa: Yeah. Wren does not know what boundaries are, for sure.

Dylan: Yeah, he definitely doesn't.

Deepa: Yeah. And then, right after that, Garrett, like, approaches her at high school.

Cameron: To teach driver's ed. Is that a thing cops do?

Deepa: I think that actually is a thing cops do, unfortunately.

Cameron: In high school.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, I haven't experienced it, cause I did driver’s ed at like Sears, or whatever.

Cameron: I also did driver’s ed at Sears. Is that a Washington thing?

Deepa: I don’t know. Dylan, where did you do driver’s ed?

Dylan: I don't know, some random company.

Deepa: Okay, okay, but not at school.

Dylan: Oh, no, definitely, not.

Deepa: Yeah. We had it at my school. But Sears was easier. It was like on weekends and stuff, I guess. I don't think cops taught it at my school, but I think – that's a thing I could see that being a thing. It wouldn’t be surprising if that was true. 

Cameron: No, it's not surprising. I was just like, oh, just another like burrowing in there.

Deepa: Definitely, yeah.

Dylan: These people never leave their high school. They're always at their high school. They don't graduate. They just stick around.

Deepa: That is true. Ultimately, when they do graduate, two of them end up teaching high school, or like one teaching and the other coaching. Ali and Emily, yeah.

Dylan: Jesus.

Deepa: Okay, just while staying on the same theme. Can we do our Ezra bucket and get it out of the way?

Cameron: He’s trying to ruin Ghost for us! Upsetting. He can't ruin Ghost for us, but he's trying to.

Deepa: No, it's true. I'm glad he didn't actually do it. He just talked about it. Right after that, when they're talking about Mike, he says, “Kids do stupid things.” You're dating a kid! You're dating a kid, Ezra.

Dylan: 100 percent. Yeah, that drove me bonkers. Also like that room. There's just so much like mud splatter on the back wall that I couldn't stop staring at, probably cause I didn't wanna look at Ezra like touching Aria, but I was just like, god, someone had an accident, like someone left the pottery wheel on and just had it spinning because it’s like blood splatters on the fucking wall.

Deepa: I've never done ceramics. Is that not usual?

Cameron: No!

Dylan: No!

Cameron: It’s very contained. It flops to the side. It doesn't fly off the fucking...

Dylan: Yeah, and there's just splatters everywhere. And also that lantern wasn't cute. I’m going to say it. It’s ugly.

Deepa: Oh, Jenna’s?

Dylan: Yeah. Jenna’s lantern.

Deepa: Oh, I like Jenna’s Lantern. I think it’s cool.

Cameron: I like it because of what it like represents when it's in action. The spinning. You probably haven't re-watched all of the episodes for this one podcast episode – so there's like a – yeah, it in use is actually really beautiful and sad.

Deepa: Yeah, there’s this scene earlier where she puts a candle inside on and puts it on a turntable and spins it, and the light coming through the holes in it are supposed to mimic like light underwater, and it actually looks very cool, and like is also a very heartbreaking story that she tells about it to Aria, who is pretending to be someone else, and who then apparently induced Jenna to drop the class.

Cameron: She dropped the class! What the fuck.

Deepa: And then when Ezra – he doesn't actually ask if she apologized, but when he says, sort of like, “Did you both get to talk?” or something like that, she's like, “No, she left before I had the chance to talk about it.” Aria, you literally go to the same high school. You have accosted Jenna before so many times to harass her, but you can't like go up to her to apologize? Like it's not like she's like disappeared, you know exactly where she is.

Dylan: Well, now I feel bad for hating on the lantern.

Deepa: It’s okay.

Cameron: It's fine! You didn’t rewatch.

Dylan: Anyway, why is Ezra touching it? There! I'll be mad about that.

Deepa: Definitely, yeah.

Dylan: Also that scene, Aria has this big, bulky necklace on that I do not like, so, worst outfit.

Cameron: Wow! It's real bad.

Deepa: Is that the one that’s like…I don't even know how to describe it. It's like loops, but they may be shells or rocks or something?

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Okay. Okay. But they're like they're also loops. But they're kind of square-shaped. It's very strange.

Cameron: They’re like square rocks.

Deepa: Okay. I'm glad I didn't misunderstand what they were.

Cameron: They could be rocks.

Dylan: And then, okay, there's also this this part where he's like, “Should I be worried about Jason?” And she like turns and flips her head in this way, and I'm like, she looks so little, like she looks like a baby in that scene in that spot, and I'm just like reminded of how much I hate them as couple.

Deepa: Yeah, I know this is skipping ahead, but because I wanna get Ezra stuff out of the way: the number of times I had to watch him be absolutely disgusting in episode nine! Just like starting off with a sex scene…all of her dreams, I know they’re dreams, but we still had to watch that. That still had to go on our screens in our eyeballs.

Cameron: We had to watch it.

Dylan: Yeah, way too many times.

Deepa: Yeah. And then, like, it doesn't make it any better when it turns out to be a dream, because it's still with Jason.

Dylan: Yeah. I don't want any of it!

Deepa: I think that's most of the Ezra stuff I wanted to get out of the way. But it was just like. I hate this love triangle. It doesn't make things any better, because it's Jason, and because it's making us see more of Ezra as they like, fight things out, or whatever.

Dylan: Okay, so we're at school now. And Hanna's like noticing that there's this guy following Caleb. And he, like, immediately just gets defensive. And I wrote, “Trust women!” That was just funny. And then I was just like not remembering why the cops are following him. But then I realized that's not what's happening at all. But okay. So then there's like the scene where Mike is like fighting with Chaz or whoever it is.

Deepa: Chaz! Of course his name is Chaz.

Dylan: I would like to bring it to sports corner, Cameron.

Cameron: Yeah.

Dylan: Because he makes the comment, “Is smash and grab a new sport?” And so, Cameron, is that – what are your thoughts on this as our sports analyser?

Deepa: So wait. Sorry! Can I just say I love that this is your like sports corner, and not like Emily swimming and like steroids discourse?

Cameron: That's what I brought today, was steroids discourse.

Dylan: I have that written immediately after that. But this is the sports corner that I'm starting with.

Deepa: Okay. Okay.

Dylan: Cameron, do you think that smash and grab is a new sport?

Cameron: Sure. Like I'm glad Mike is staying active, because we see how he's impacted when his new sport is shut down. 

Deepa: Lacrosse season is over. That's like, we know that sucks. Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, he needs to remain active. He's not interested in pickup basketball anymore. 

Deepa: It's cause he can’t dunk and everyone else can dunk.

Cameron: Everyone else at that school can dunk. It's very impressive.

Deepa: Yeah, I'm sorry, Mike, that does suck.

Cameron: Yeah, I did not come prepared to state whether that's a sport or not. But I think I decided yes.

Dylan: Thank you. 

Cameron: I did bring a book, though, about performance-enhancing drugs.

Deepa: Let's get into it. Let's get into it.

Cameron: So. Emily, I think like one of maybe the first, like very invasive medical things we get from A like about getting into their bodies, in ways that are just like even more creepy than things that have already been, happens in this episode, in which Emily has been using a pain reducing cream that Mona has injected steroids into.

Deepa: Oof.

Cameron: And so she tested positive for human growth hormone when she went to the hospital for her ulcer.

Deepa: Her ulcer, ‘cause she's so stressed!

Cameron: She's so stressed. And this is just like not what she needs.

Dylan: Oh, yeah, that's for sure. Definitely not what she needs. Do ulcers hurt that bad?

Cameron: I don't know.

Deepa: I don't know, but I would have to imagine, as Hanna says, about a million times, “She has a hole in her stomach.”

Cameron: A hole in her stomach! That seems bad.

Deepa: I love that. I love how many times Hanna says that.

Cameron: Yeah. Hanna was just like saying things, and everyone's like, “Please stop saying them,” like the whole episode.

Deepa: But I loved it. I was like, Hanna, please keep saying them.

Cameron: So that's the context for the steroids discussion, and basically I think I have a quote, unfortunately.

Deepa: Unfortunately? Please! We're waiting.

Dylan: This is sports corner. This is what this is about.

Cameron: Sports corner with Cameron! It's Sport in Capitalist Society: A Short History, by Tony Collins. And basically the – I'll just read this quote and then talk about it: “So unlike every sphere of life, sport rejects the progress made by medical and pharmaceutical science in favor of its own moral certainties. The discourse on drugs and sport was not a debate, but an attempt to define and command the moral high ground.”

Deepa: Mm.

Cameron: So basically, because sport was established as like this very middle class, like, way to preserve masculinity and like values, it's tied. It's like, we get to decide who's a good person, like, this is a moral thing. Like. It's separating the good from the evil, the bad from the good, and basically saying that like performance enhancing drugs aren't that different from like specialized shoes, or like other weird rituals we do and engage in and like, we've decided that this is the thing we're policing. And it is not in this book, but in a different book, it’s a slippery, slippery slope to trans exclusion, just monitoring those levels and people's bodies and things. Yeah.

Deepa: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, yeah. And I also think we can't like talk about, you know, what the “ideal” form is that you're supposed to be in without taking hormones or without monitoring what's going on in your body, without also talking about whiteness, right? In the way that even for cis people who are not white, mostly Black people, there's so much policing over what is happening in your body that is like – whether it's actually based on performance enhancing drugs or not. Right? Like the narrative gets wrapped together. It's obviously not just about these things that you put into your body. It's also about what also your body does naturally, right, for a lot of people who like – because we're talking about testosterone levels and stuff in Black women.

Cameron: And how it looks, and is perceived right.

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah.

Cameron: Like you can be too successful, or you can just be not feminine enough, and those are both like problems.

Deepa: Yeah, for sure.

Dylan: Yeah, I think a lot about how like Emily is like this brown woman, and she's gay and like those implications of like how that's received, especially with how much like in phobia and like homophobia, kind of specifically transphobia because they’re trying to make a method of gay people are fine, but she still experiences homophobia. but like especially like within sports, and how those are so closely linked. and like how like later there, like in the next episode, they're talking about like we gotta get rid of all of our creams, all of our everything. Cause you don't wanna look masculine. You don't wanna have these features. You don't wanna be this way, right and like it’s like this, like idea of like a butcher body is like wrong or bad, or a masculine body, is wrong or bad. If you're supposed to be this like hyper feminine thing. And like these. these girls are like the names of the titles. Pretty Little Liars! They're supposed to be like these petite pretty women. 

Deepa: Well, even the little they can't be too big, right? They like, whether. fatness or like butchness. Right? They have to be tiny.

Dylan: Like when Spencer, like comes to Aria’s rescue in a different episode where she's like, I was worried about you. You're so little and I was just like, interesting how that’s portrayed. But yeah, so like Emily. it's like shitty that Emily's like whole life could be technically dependent on this thing that she didn't even consent to doing. Yeah.

Cameron: even if she did do it. She's not a bad person. That’s my looping back to its not a moral thing but Dylan, you break up the creams, and Emily threw out the creams was so interesting because The one thing Emily specifically says, like you don't want to like play with is like chin hair, and like that's like a very common symptom, or like whatever of like PCOS which We know That the actress who plays Ali has and that's like a very interesting like, right? like fuck that.

Deepa: Geez.

Cameron: We're just monitoring everyone's body and being like this is wrong.

Deepa: The other thing. I just thought of Dylan when you were talking about. You know, Emily, being a brown, queer woman on the swimming team is just the back in season one when we have the Nick Mccullors, Paige's dad coming into the school incident, and obviously he never talks about race, but like there's very much this implication of like the gall of someone like Emily to be the lead on the swim team right of like being this brown, queer woman like representing them, you know, instead of my like perfect white daughter, presumably straight

Dylan: My perfect white, straight, bad haircut daughter.

Cameron: The bob. Aww

Deepa: All of that is going to change. Nick, I'm sorry.

Dylan: So happy that she was not in. I know now why she wasn't in this episode, but I was like, Oh, thank God, it's not a Paige thing, but.

Deepa: That's true. We just like don't see Paige for a while, even though she's presumably on the same team with Emily.

Cameron: I guess we need more swimming. Honestly

Deepa: We do. I know swimming has just been so far up until this episode this season. Swimming has just been a vehicle for Samara to hang out with Emily. I did. I did get mixed up because Emily has so many times when, like things go wrong with swimming that I wasn't sure going into this if this was the time Emily, like hits her head on the wall.

Dylan: I didn’t think about that. I thought this was when she heard her arm when she fell. 

Cameron: Oh the shoulder.

Deepa: Okay. When she hurts her shoulder, she doesn't get hurt while swimming, that it impacts her swimming.

Cameron: Oh, that's true! It's like an A incident.

Deepa: It's an A incident where she like falls on the ground because A is speeding at her with a car.

Dylan: I wasn't sure why she was rubbing the cream. I thought it was for that. 

Deepa: It was for the ulcer. Yeah.

Dylan: For the ulcer?

Deepa: For the ulcer. And then it just so happens that because she's at the hospital for the ulcer, that's when they find out. And like, yeah. This is such a side note. But I was just listening to this is like an infuriating fact. I was listening to some, probably basketball podcast I don't remember what honestly, but it talked about a white athlete who, I think they were talking with a white athlete who had was going to the Olympics, or is going, or had gone, to the previous Olympics, and was talking about like having a joint to cool, to calm down, and it just made me so mad all over again for Sha’Carri Richardson, And like, white people can talk about that publicly and like, and not have any consequences for it. And when you use cannabis to, because your mom just died, and you found out about it on the fucking news. You are like prohibited from competing the Olympics, even though it's not the performance enhancing drug. So like. the rules are just so you know. 

Cameron: Like arbitrary! 

Deepa: And even the rules around performance enhancing drugs are like, We have these athletes in Russia who like yes, it sounds like they were like, forcibly, you know, or like didn't know, that they were being given performance enhancing drugs, but are still like cleared of any charges because presumably because of their whiteness, and like people feeling bad for them, being from Russia like.

Cameron: Right. We can just like see their innocence more like that. Oh, they didn't know they didn't know.

Deepa:  yeah, exactly. And like, yeah, I'm glad that they aren't getting punished for this, either. 

Cameron: No one should be.

Dylan: So now that I'm doing the job that I'm doing at a Major university with lots of athletes that I do alcohol and other drugs Like health education. Sometimes I do have to like, talk about performance enhancing drugs and that type of stuff and testing, and like those types of things. And our quote unquote, like punishment for students, is Relatively lax compared to like other universities, and like, we don't try to. We're just kind of like, hey? Don't do that. I don't say anything to them, but what was interesting that I had to learn is that alcohol is a performance enhancing drug for archery.

Deepa: What do you mean? 

Dylan: Because it makes them more relaxed. So they're able to like swoop! 

Deepa: That’s wild

Dylan: Yeah. And that's the only sport that it's like considered a performance enhancing drug for which is really funny.

Deepa: Wow! Archery! I would not have expected that. I would have thought that it, like, I don't know, has some like visual stuff or like balance stuff that would be difficult for our tree. But relaxing. Okay, interesting. Going back to the scene with Emily, where she finds out. Sorry this. We're back on our abusing adults, but I forgot about it earlier. Ren is giving her this talk about it, and he's like, I'm sorry you're a minor. So your parents have to know. So again, you're acknowledging that she's a minor while you're trying to date her fucking friend, and like acknowledging that she doesn't have the autonomy to keep her medical results secret as someone under eighteen. But you think it's okay. I'm sorry! It was just like all these reminders right of. Like these are fucking kids. They are legally kids, I know, like the whatever fucking age of consent or whatever, but they're not able to consent to other things like having private medical information.

Cameron: Yeah, just weird that like Wren’s involved in that, too. Like, I know, he's like, has a rotation at rosewood general or whatever But like I don't know.

Deepa: Man poor Emily.

Cameron: I feel So bad for her.

Deepa: I know so much pressure so much. I was glad that Wayne was there. It was nice to See him.

Cameron: Been so long.

Deepa: It's been so long.

Deepa: I did give him best parent.

Cameron: Me too

Deepa: Okay, Dylan. And who do you get best parents?

Dylan: I gave it to Ashley because I was really inspired by her telling Tom “that was never You” Line was pretty great, and I was like good for her.

Deepa: yeah, yeah, I need to be with the man who knows what He wants, that was never you.

Dylan: Yes, there we go. Yeah. I love that but also the candy striper outfit, and that scene was best outfit for me. that was fun.

Cameron: I love when they wear candy, striper outfits, and because I couldn't, I didn't like anything else. I did also choose that. I know it’s cheating because I've done it before.

Deepa: It’s cheating only because you've done it before, and honestly, I will just say I do think Ali like kills it in that outfit more than the others. Sorry.

Cameron: I just I wasn't inspired by anything else.

Deepa: Really? that's so funny. Okay. Let's stay on parents for a second, and then we can get to outfits. I think the other nice thing that Ashley did was being very sweet, if a little awkward with Emily, and like.

Cameron: She says gay rights.

Deepa: Exactly. Ashley is like could do whatever you want in this house. You know what I mean right?

Cameron: Yeah. That was cute.

Dylan: Yeah. That was my other one. Best mom

Deepa: Yeah, I think I didn't give it to Ashley just because she like still hurt Hanna by messing around with Tom in the first place, but if Wayne hadn't been here, I probably would have given it to Ashley. I was just like he was being great like he realizes like how much pressure she's been under. And you know. who did you give worst parent to Dylan?

Dylan: Tom the first one, and then Aria’s dad the second episode.

Deepa: Cameron? Who did you give it to.

Cameron: Tom.

Deepa: Same, yeah.

Dylan: in episode eight Hanna's outfit and the getaway scene.

Cameron: Yes, yes, that one was great. I loved that.

Deepa: That's yes, that's what I wanted to discuss is I wanted to discuss some of Hanna's outfits for best other than the candy striper. I like the getaway car outfit was just amazing, for, like what it is.

Cameron: Yes, I loved That.

Deepa: I also liked Hanna's like pink dress with the black boots. I just didn't like the jacket. If, when she took the jacket off, I thought it was good.

Cameron: It was like for clubbing. And I know they wear that to School. But I was like this is absurd.

Deepa: I know but she looked good in it. 

Cameron: She did. But I didn't like that dress, so I thought it was just like gaudy.

Deepa: I liked it. I liked it. I just the jacket was bad. 

Cameron: Hot pink. Zipper up the front.

Deepa: I thought the zipper was fun. I realize I've said bad things about zippers when it comes to Aria’s outfits. But I liked it for Hanna.

Cameron: Wow! Double standards! Here!

Deepa: We, of course, have a double standard for Aria's clothing. Hanna also had a really nice burnt orange Cardigan, like the rest of the outfit was just like normal. But the Cardigan is really nice.

Cameron: That cardigan was Nice. I just yeah. As a single piece. I enjoy the cardigan.

Deepa: Okay.

Cameron: My worst is Spencer had a donkey sweater.

Dylan: Was that a donkey? I thought that was a horse. Yeah, that was my least favorite one. I wrote that down too.

Cameron: It’s a donkey it’s so weird.

Deepa: that's so funny! That's so funny.

Deepa: I went with Spencer's dress that looks like a uniform? Because she also wore it with knee high socks and white boots.

Cameron: Like a Sailor outfit.

Deepa: Yeah, exactly. The dress itself is kind of sailor, which wouldn't have been the worst in the world, except that with the socks and boots. It looked like a uniform, and she wore it to school.

Cameron: Weird stuff. I agree with you.

Dylan: Yeah, she looked like she was picking up a shift at the Yacht club.

Deepa: Dylan what was your worst outfit?

Dylan: Yeah, I think it was the donkey sweater.

Deepa: I don't know how I didn't notice it was a donkey.

Dylan: Imagine snooping in that outfit like this bright red, bright red.

Cameron: What are you doing?

Dylan: Donkeys on it.

Cameron: It was kind of obscured TBH.

Deepa: Okay, thank you.

Cameron: I was like Is that a donkey? And then it was like, yes, that's a donkey.

Deepa: This reminds me that one of my good Spencer outfits from a couple of episodes ago I didn't realize until I was taking the screenshots for putting it online, but it has owls on it. And I was like goddamnit.

Cameron: She does that.

Deepa: They were like really tiny little owls. But.

Cameron: You think it's any other pattern, but it's animals.

Deepa: Yeah exactly. Animals.

Cameron: Oh, man, I like when they wear candy, striper outfits. hilarious Mona in the morgue action. Oh my gosh, wow!

Deepa: I was waiting. I was waiting for her to sit up in the body bag.

Dylan: You can kind of see a face like, yeah, it's kind of see through. And but I was like to high to pause it and rewind it. But I was like who? It doesn't look like the actor who plays Mona. I think it's just like a random person, but like It was still kind of like you could see something. But yeah, that's so creepy. So it's like she's crazy.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: She’s going and stealing pages from files, and then just hanging around to like see her handy work. She also sneaks into Emily's room to set up her food tray in the hospital. Incredible.

Dylan: Yeah. And then she massages her like in the next episode or so.

Cameron: I thought Lucas did that.

Dylan: Oh it was Lucas?

Deepa: It's yeah, we don't find out for quite a while, but it is Lucas, and I don't remember why he does it, for Mona.

Cameron: probably because of gambling debts. He's very motivated by those.

Dylan: Can't believe that Jesus. is Emily’s body the most put in danger in all of it. Like in terms of like being touched creepily? Or it’s just like everyone’s fair game?

Cameron: I think it’s gotta be Ali, Right?

Deepa: Gotta be Ali. Ali is forcibly impregnated.

Cameron: Yeah, that is just.

Dylan: Oh! My god I don’t know that.

Cameron: Yeah. It’s very at the end.

Deepa: I can't remember if you finished the show or not.

Dylan: No, I did not finish the show.

Deepa: Then you have not seen that. Yeah. Yeah. Ali is the worst. I would put Hanna second first, cause she gets hit by a car, and then she gets.

Cameron: The teeth! 

Deepa: Tooth. She gets a note stuck in the-

Cameron: shoved in her tooth! 

Dylan: Ew

Deepa: Like into like a cavity, into her tooth.

Cameron: Hate it.

Dylan: Oh my god

Cameron: The drugging, Yeah? And the like cattle prodding incident is also very intense where she is like shocked, repeated.

Deepa: Yes, I forgot about that. She’s like tortured. Actually, yeah, so. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Dylan: My God!

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: So, Emily, I think Emily would be third cause. Emily definitely does get like well, Emily gets her eggs stolen, but after they were out of her body.

Cameron: They Weren't in her body, so it's invasive. But it's like yeah god. It’s a terrible ranking. 

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, I know. I know Dylan, just in case you never finish the show. Ali is impregnated with Emily's eggs in an Absolutely absurd plotline. So yeah.

Dylan: That’s actually the gay agenda

Cameron: Eventually they just like make peace with that but it’s like so fucked up.

Dylan: That’s insane. Who does that? By Mona.

Cameron: No. Her Husband or her husband, who's like faking.

Dylan: Who’s Husband?

Deepa: Okay So there's a time skip. There's a five-year time skip between seasons five and six, I want to say, or six and seven. I can't remember. Yeah. So they're all adults now they're all adults. Now Ali gets married to Charlotte's doctor, who turns out to have actually been in love with Charlotte. But we don't find that out until after he does all this, and he like both. He both. Actually, it's not just the impregnating. He also institutionalizes her.

Cameron: He institutionalizes her. Yeah. Convinces everyone she's crazy.

Deepa: And uses that to then. Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, it's bad. It's real bad.

Dylan: How'd they get Emily's egg?

Cameron: A did it. Oh Emily had to Donate them because she had no money.

Dylan: Oh my god! This show

Deepa: Yeah. The last few seasons are wild.

Cameron: It's so sad like.

Deepa: Is really sad, I know I know But then, ultimately Emily and Alison get married and have the twins together. So.

Dylan: Oh, gay love. that's bonkers.

Deepa: It's definitely Bonkers.

Cameron: Medical invasiveness is-

Deepa: Real bad in this show. The other reveal that we got in the morgue is that when they're reading the autopsy, which is actually Bethany's autopsy, right? It’s not actually, Ali, yeah.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: And she had dirt in her lungs, which confirms that she was alive when Melissa buried her. And I think Melissa knows that. So Melissa did officially kill her. It wasn't someone else. She wasn't burying someone else who killed her.

Cameron: Yeah. damn

Deepa: And I think I'm pretty sure Melissa knows that. I'm pretty sure, Melissa, I think That's why she Feels so like upset at Spencer because she thinks that Spencer started it, but she finished it off.

Cameron: Oof poor Bethany.

Deepa: I don't remember who hit Bethany on the head, or what. Why she was there. We'll find that eventually. But.

Cameron: Do we?

Deepa: Jessica brings her to Rosewood and dresses her up in Ali's clothing. But I don't remember why like does she do that?

Cameron: Fucking Wild.

Deepa: Fucking wild.

Dylan: these crazy kids. Oh my god, I'm really, I can't get over this impregnation thing. That’s all I'm thinking about right now.

Deepa: Fair. It's horrifying!

Dylan: I don’t even Remember what else I was going to say. Speaking of babies? I already told you all this. But I do wanna say that I, my friend, had a baby and named the baby Aria, and I was like, why'd you name the baby Aria? And she legitimately said, Oh, I really liked the name from Pretty Little Liars. So I think that's beautiful. We call that a win.

Deepa: I will say I still think it's better than naming your child Aria from game of thrones. So.

Cameron: Oh, like with a y or whatever.

Deepa: The y, yeah, exactly.

Cameron: Well.

Deepa: I realize I'm biased because I haven't watched game of thrones, and I love Pretty Little Liars, but it is still Aria, so I don't think I'm that biased.

Cameron: Dylan, There were ginger children outside of the cupcake shop, so I wanted to let you know, as far as representation goes. 

Dylan: Oh my god

Deepa: There were! The perfect ginger, family.

Dylan: I didn't even see that. we gotta pause. I'm gonna re-watch, and then we're gonna start this all over again. I missed the ginger babies. Oh, God!

Deepa: And then there’s just Hanna and Caleb sitting on the curb across the street, being, like our families suck, which is true.

Cameron: which is true.

Deepa: These perfect ginger children.

Dylan: Yeah. The Caleb leaving town thing really got me like What's her name that plays Hanna did such a good job in that scene. like those tears and The little like she still kept like the Hanna, like jesting, and then of like, I see what Mendocino looks like, you know, like. She’s so funny even when she’s sad. 

Deepa: They're so they're so good. I love them so much I like don't really have other comments other than that. They're really good. And they have a great relationship. 

Dylan: Who does she end up with?

Deepa: Caleb.

Dylan: Yay!

Cameron: But he dates Spencer!

Dylan: What?

Deepa: You should maybe watch the final season just for that.

Dylan: Okay

Cameron: That shit’s wild.

Deepa: He and Hanna break up when Hanna's in college, and then she gets with this like Bro-y, like finance dude, or whatever and then Caleb and Spencer date, and, like Spencer, falls in love with him like.

Dylan: Oh my god!

Cameron: Makes sense. He seems Easy to fall in love with. Yeah.

Deepa: This why I think it's hilarious whenever Spencer and Caleb interact in the early seasons, and like when Spencer says things like, Oh, he looks really hot right now. Yeah, you're gonna fall in love with him.

Cameron: You are. It’s going to be sad.

Deepa: It's gonna be sad for you. I'm sorry.

Dylan: That’s scandalous

Cameron: It is.

Deepa: But he and Hanna end up together. Yeah. And it's cute. I was frustrated that it feels like we just got Caleb back. And now he's gonna be gone for some episodes again.

Dylan: Yeah

Deepa: But he will be back. He's just not around for a bit. So, but I do think we get Maya back soon.

Cameron: Oh! Really?

Deepa: Hopefully. Well, okay, let's talk about Samara.

Dylan: Yeah, we need to talk about Samara.

Cameron: I finally saw Deepa what you were talking about with them like, and their lack of chemistry, or just like maybe they're like awkwardness, cause. I think like when Samara like brings cupcakes, and is like, “Sweets for my sweet!” And it was the worst thing I've ever seen in my life.

Deepa: I was like, really?

Cameron: Do you even like each other?

Dylan: I know Shay like is not really out, or like disclosing anything about sexuality? Or has Shay done that?

Deepa: Don't think Shay’s ever- I mean Shay has definitely never come out, but I feel like she's always talked about playing Emily as if she's a straight person playing Emily, like, right?

Cameron: I think so.

Dylan: Yeah. Okay, so this is why you don't hire straight people. They gay people because there's just such bad chemistry. It's just not good. I was just like Jesus Christ, and then they break up so fast, you know, in that episode. And then It was just so silly. I was just like jeez, and we had, like we had to watch so much Ezra and Aria banging in this episode, and then we get a gay breakup scene, bad cupcakes, and just like also the gays that they picked for that poker night were just so funny to me. Like someone is wearing a fedora.

Cameron: I loved that.

Deepa: That was our second- But so in one of our previous episodes, Dylan, that hasn't come out yet. Cameron was talking about how, when we first meet Samara's friend Quinn. Who is one of the people I think you know. Who's the person who sees Emily Give her number to the other one. Cameron noted that Quinn is like the butchest character we get to have on the show, or, like the masc-est character we get to have on the show, which sadly, is true, and I think the other friend, the Fedora friend, is like the next.

Cameron: Is another “Butch.”

Dylan: Oh geez, we gotta have these butches with their fedoras and bad wigs.

Deepa: Yeah, that hair.

Dylan: Such a bad wig on.

Deepa: I know it's really bad hair.

Dylan: So bad

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, I mean, okay, to be clear, I do think that Emily has chemistry with some people. I just don't think she has chemistry with Samara. But yeah, though, yeah, this is just like such a- I was comparing it to how a gets Spencer's first boyfriend, Alex out of the way. It's just like a very quick like, yeah, we gotta get this person out like.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I guess you gotta ask her friend for her number. That's gonna make her mad enough. like Emily could have done that so many like chill ways, and she just didn't, because they have to get right het out of the way right?

Dylan: Yeah, she gets so defensive.

Cameron: She Did it in such a flirty way.

Deepa: I know, I know.

Cameron: It was very flirty. “You forgot something: my number!”

Deepa: Bad pickup lines, Emily.

Cameron: Okay.

Dylan: So bad.

Dylan: My friend tried that on someone like, “Oh, you dropped this,” and it's her number. And the guy was like, “I didn't drop anything.” And she's like, “Yeah, you did.” And he's like, “No, I didn't.” And then she's like, “Oh my god! Open it!” And he was like, “What is this?”

Cameron: Oh geez. 

Dylan: We just walked away. It was the funniest shit ever.

Deepa: So funny! You were there for this? That's amazing.

Dylan: God, it was so funny! And I don't think he ever called her.

Deepa: Yeah, well, he seems to not know what it was. So maybe he didn't realize it was a phone number. 

Dylan: Yeah. “What is it? What do I do with this?” Relationship built off of lies from the beginning, lies and gaslighting from the get-go.

Cameron: “You dropped something.”

Dylan: Okay, how do we feel about children allowing to have locks on their doors and privacy for kids?

Deepa: Yes, sorry. It took me a minute to connect what you're asking. Yes,

Cameron: Mike!

Deepa: Yeah, they should be allowed to have locks on their doors and use them. They there for a reason.

Dylan: Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. Oof.

Deepa: That scene was heartbreaking because I couldn't even like I was mad at Byron, obviously, but like it was also clear that he was gutted right like. It was just like this is just heartbreaking on all levels, right? this feels very realistic to me of how a parent would react.

Cameron: Yeah, like, he was very mad initially, and then was like, Oh, shit, there's like something going on here and was just like, Yeah, yeah.

Deepa: I think I think these past few episodes like it's been hard for me to like be as blatantly angry at Byron because he is acting the way I know a lot of parents act in that situation. Both if their kids get caught up with like law enforcement stuff and also with depression or other like mental illness that like they like. I mean, it sounds like Byron has some familiarity with it, actually, tragically, because it sounds like his brother.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Has implied to have, you know killed himself. So it's yeah. It was just like really hard to watch on all levels.

Dylan: Yeah. I know that was hard. I wasn't sure what his brother quote. Scott has done or not done, and I wasn't. I'm glad that you said that. And he it's implied that he killed himself because I was like, is it a drug thing, or is it a depression thing or like what's happening.

Deepa: I guess I could be wrong. I don't think that they ever. I don't think that they ever talk about it again. So I was taking from that scene. That's what I took from it. But I could be wrong.

Dylan: Okay.

Cameron: No. I also interpreted that he died by suicide, I guess, but based on nothing.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Oh, poor Mike!

Deepa: poor Mike. I know, I know. But again, I think this is like the start of maybe Mike getting some help and support. So that's the like. I feel like this is the turning point for them. Like starting to realize that he needs support rather than just like treating him like he's. you know.

Cameron: Yeah, I did appreciate Byron. I don't usually appreciate Byron, but I appreciated him, being like, I don't think we can leave him alone, like, I think we need to actually like figure out ways to like support him.

Deepa: Unfortunately for him, I think part of that means like constantly monitoring him right now, but, like eventually, I think it will mean like helping him get him support that is actually helpful for him.

Cameron: Yeah, it's so shitty like the Jason of it right now is so weird. Cause he's like trying to get with Aria. And his way to do that is like offering support to her brother. And I'm just like this is disgusting.

Deepa: Well, and it's he makes it so obvious, too, because he goes to their house. Byron lets him in. if he wants like. Why wouldn't he give that information to Byron? Who is Mike's dad rather than to her sister? Nope, it's because he wants to hit on Aria like.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: What The fuck, and she's like obviously so uncomfortable to see him there, and like that scene also irritated me, because I think. obviously because we know about Aria's dreams, and also because this show doesn't care about adults abusing teenagers. We're supposed to read that as her being flustered because she's been thinking about him.

Cameron: Oh sure 

Deepa: But like you Could very well read that scene as her being very disturbed by him flirting with her right? like, and she should be. But like that's how he should be interpreting it right now. He doesn't know that she's been dreaming of him, right? like that's not how he's gonna interpret it. He's gonna Be like, oh, maybe Aria is in to me too.

Dylan: Yeah, they try to pitch it in this way, where Emily is also saying, like, she says, this specific line, like, “you dream about people because you want something from them, not because they want something from you” and that one resonated for me this week for personal reasons. But I was like. But then, later, it was she was right. Emily was wrong. And Aria was like, Okay, yeah, he does like me Cause Then he kisses her, and like kind of does that whole thing. And so it was just like trust your dreams is what I'm saying.

Deepa: I don't think Emily was saying that Jason wasn’t into her. I think Emily was just saying that Aria is into Jason, too, and that she's not admitting it.

Dylan: Yeah, no, I know that. But it was just like interesting. How they also tried to be like putting it in that message instead of the framework that you were talking about of, like this is creepy, and she's uncomfortable.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Dylan: This is all like really messing with her brain right now, because of how all these old men are preying on these teenagers.

Deepa: Exactly. And yeah, and the reason she's like having trouble with Ezra is also because he's an adult preying – right? Like.

Dylan: And then Emily also says something that really pissed me off. She was like talking she's, like, oh, you guys are fine, you just need to reconnect your like love for each other, and I'm like they’re children. There's nothing to reconnect about, like if you are a teenager and you're trying to reconnect with your lover like that's insane like you're just a child. That's something you say to a forty-year-old person that’s having a hard time with their marriage after having three children and is really tired. 

Deepa: Right. You're so right like, even if you take, even if you take their relationship as if they're quote unquote dating. Instead of this being an abusive relationship. They've been together. What? Like three months. you have to reconnect after three months, maybe this isn’t working out.

Dylan: There is something wrong. Yeah.

Cameron: Ooh!

Dylan: three months. Yeah, I forgot the weird timeline of all this, too. Yeah, you're right.

Deepa: Emily also says that she understands why Aria is attracted to Jason, because, quote, he's mysterious and wounded, and you love to fix things which is not what I think of Aria’s Vibe as being. I don't think of Aria’s Vibe as being “I gotta fix this person, that's why I like them”. Right? like If you think of all the other people she's been into? She's not trying to fix them.

Dylan: Ezra needed a lot of fixing.

Deepa: But that's not why she's into him. That's not why they get together like that comes later.

Dylan: They get together because he's predatory. Yeah.

Deepa: Exactly. I mean what she's attracted to in him, is like his English literature stuff.

Dylan: Books! His bad writing.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Ew Yeah. Those things seem separate to me. like she likes to fix things in her family.

Deepa: Yes, yes, definitely.

Cameron: It doesn’t seem like it’s connected to like romance or attraction for her.

Deepa: Yeah, the other people she ends up being attracted to. At one point she's attracted to Ezra's brother, which is fucking hilarious. I don't think He's mysterious and wounded. I don't think he's wounded.

Cameron: Yeah, he’s an asshole.

Deepa: Yeah, Dylan, did you ever watch faking it?

Dylan: No

Deepa: Okay. It's a lesbian show, but it has the actor who plays Ezra’s younger brother in it. and then she's into Jake, the guy from the.

Cameron: Boxing

Deepa: Yeah, who teaches? Yes, exactly, or a self defense. And he's definitely not like wounded and stuff. He's like together.

Cameron: He's hardy.

Dylan: He’s punching people.

Deepa: and then her like boyfriend from the editing, whatever. And this is also, after the time skip, she joined, she becomes.

Cameron: Ian, Ethan.

Deepa: It's not Ian, cause we have an Ian. But it could be Ethan. Yeah, yeah, he's just like he seems like bookish. But like, you know, normal.

Dylan: she’s a tortured artist.

Deepa: No, he's really not.

Cameron: He's yeah. He seems he's incredibly normal.

Dylan: No Aria’s the tortured artist.

Cameron: Yes. Yeah.

Deepa: Yes, for sure.

Cameron: yeah, like. Jason is mysterious and wounded, but I don't see that.

Deepa: I don’t think that’s why Aria is- That's honestly more of Spencer’s vibe.

Deepa: I don't know that everyone she dates needs fixing, but I think she tries to fix them. I think that's what happened with Alex right.

Cameron: And the fucking car that the Toby truck sorry.

Deepa: Yes, yes, yes, definitely. Yeah. Toby She's definitely trying.

Cameron: Toby she's just trying to like fix constantly.

Dylan: She's not saying I can fix him. she's saying I can get this person to pass the MCAT. That's like Spencer's whole vibe.

Cameron: It's so extreme. Yeah, like, we need to be here.

Deepa: True, true.

Deepa: We do get the creepy photos in the shed, which is just a hilarious plot line.

Cameron: In the shed!

Deepa: Dylan, Do you remember why there are creepy photos in the shed? 

Dylan: No

Deepa: It's not that Jason took photos of Aria. It’s that Alison took photos of Aria! 

Dylan: Yes, no. I remember that part but like why did Alison take photos Of Aria?

Deepa: No idea, no idea. They never talk about it.

Dylan: Gay?

Deepa: Just gay. She's just gay.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: They never. They never talk about it again like it's so funny. It's hilarious.

Dylan: A lost plot line.

Deepa: Ali was so, so gay. That's it.

Dylan: That’s so funny. I wouldn’t trust him. I would be like you're lying.

Cameron: Oh, about the photo origin?

Dylan: Yeah, I'd be like, you're lying about the photos.

Deepa: That's fair, but I want to believe it, because I think it's hilarious that Ali took them so I will like. We know that he's creepy already from the NAT Club, so I don't think we need this extra confirmation. I think this is just Ali being gay.

Dylan: I was also thinking about like when Aria is like lying to Jason like she's just like too horny to lie properly to him. Is that what's happening? like she's like flustered about getting him out of the house.

Deepa: Exactly. Yeah. I guess so.

Cameron: In the dark room, which are like always creepy dark rooms are always creepy. Especially because it's a shed that's like another element. But Emily, being like “they're all of Aria,” is like I just was thinking about in Love Actually. She's watching the video, and she’s just like, “They're all of me!” 

Deepa: Oh no! Well, Dylan, I know you had a bad experience watching Love Actually. So.

Dylan: God.

Deepa: Is that okay? Are you okay?

Cameron: trigger warning, sorry

Dylan: I had a lovely experience hanging with my friends.

Dylan: But yeah, that's so creepy.

Cameron: So creepy.

Dylan: So glad she doesn't wind up with him.

Deepa: It is fucking creepy! 

Dylan: Yeah, I just like, I, I do appreciate that being something that Emily identifies, because it just really lends into this like sapphic thing of like noticing lips and being like Oh, I could tell which friend of mine this is based off the lips that we're taking photos of. or like, you know, I know there's a few like shots like further back we see her whole face, but like that's a very gay to notice what your like. I'm sure I could identify all my friends’ mouths in a lineup, you know.

Deepa: I was like. This is so unrealistic. Who can do that? But I guess this is me.

Dylan: I just want to put it out there.

Deepa: I'm very unobservant. I could not identify any lips. Maybe even not my own.

Dylan: You're too busy remembering everything for the group.

Cameron: Yeah, thank you.

Deepa: It's either that or I'm too demisexual. I'm not sure.

Dylan: You're the Giver. You hold all our memories. Too demisexual. Maybe It is erotic, you know. My b. my friends are hot. What can I say? Looking at their mouths.

Deepa: You just said it was gay of Emily, so you know.

Dylan: Beautiful. That's what friends do.

Cameron: Look at each other's mouths.

Dylan: Admire how hot you just they are, you know, like. I’d recognize those lips anywhere! Those are Aria’s. Whoa!

Deepa: Okay. I hope this is not what we're gonna end on, but because it's depressing. But I do want to talk a little bit about Jenna's like getting her site back Surgery plot Line, which will become more in future Episodes. But it's just so fucked up on so many levels like, I just can't get over how PLL does the ableist version of the story where they're trying to like Quote unquote cure a disabled person right. But Then the other characters are even worse about it by like.

Cameron: they are.

Deepa: Basically wishing she wouldn't get her sight back because it would scare them. And then ultimately, when she does, she loses it again. And it's just like you did all like you hit every bad point in this. You didn't even like. Oh!

Dylan: They were like talking about it at lunch, and I was like, I literally wrote, no wonder why Mona knows everything, because they whisper so fucking loudly. Number one. number two. They're like debating whether or not this will be a good thing for them or a bad thing for them not about what Jenna was not about disability politics. Of course they're not gonna do that because it’s a shitty show, but they were just literally like do you think she’ll forgive us?

Deepa: Hanna literally says does this get us off the hook for harming her.

Dylan: Yeah, right, yeah, like.

Deepa: What the fuck Hanna

Cameron: And Spencer's, like maybe guilt-wise.

Deepa: No, not guilt wise not guilt wise. Like you didn't do anything to help this happen. You're not supporting her now, so obviously not guilt wise.

Deepa: like, at one point They say this horrible line about like “Jenna’s scary enough without all her senses” or something right?

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I was like again, super fucking ableist. Also, Jenna's only scary, because you've decided she's scary.

Cameron: What is she doing?

Deepa: Even the things that she's doing are because of you, like. If you had like, done anything to be accountable and support her, she wouldn't have to do right like. You Came to this from a place of apparent fear the whole time, and that like led to you, harming her more, right? like this is all on you. I'm sorry, like.

Cameron: Yeah.

Dylan: Yeah, I mean. she did like Coerce Toby. which I don't think they know at this point.

Cameron: They do. They do know that at this point.

Dylan: they know.

Deepa: But all the things that they did to her were before they knew. And like, Yeah.

Dylan: And also her bedroom is terribly decorated. So that's also- could you imagine? she's like taking off her like thing and exposing her new lingerie inside of the window, so everyone can see. and I'm just thinking about like damn she’s about to get down in that room.

Deepa: Oh no!

Cameron: All the dolls just on that shelf.

Deepa: Dolls and snow globes, maybe.

Cameron: There is at least one oh no she loves snow globes maybe there is more than one.

Deepa: There are multiple snow globes. Which makes me think, does Mona ever make a snow globe as that feels like such a classic thing? She does, right? Okay.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah. I think it rains A's. Maybe.

Deepa: That's incredible.

Dylan: Funny.

Deepa: Oh, my! Gosh!

Cameron: She’s so crafty.

Deepa: So crafty. I love it.

Cameron: I love the reveal at the end of season, nine, where pictures developed of them, looking at the pictures. That was fun.

Dylan: Yeah, what a way to end it.

Deepa: How did she get in there?

Cameron: We don't know.

Dylan: I know I'm like. I don't remember a flash at that point, it doesn’t make any sense.

Deepa: It doesn’t make any sense but it's amazing.

Dylan: Oh, it's always interesting to me when they turn on the lights in the scene versus when they don't turn on the lights in the scene. like there's like this moment where Ashley's calling Hanna, and it's not even a scary moment. She's just like not in a lit room. They just have her sitting at her desk, and there’s no lighting at all. like I get the scenes where there's whispering or telling or making like a whisper phone call or something. But like when Ashley is just like chatting. I don't know. It's funny to me. Oh, when Spencer was shocked about the computer being password protected in the hospital. I was like. Of course, this past is protected, Spencer. It's a hospital.

Cameron: Of course the coroner’s computer is password protected.

Deepa: To be honest, I don't think she would have gotten anything out of it, anyway, because medical records took so long to get online. And they like haven’t digitized Most of the back records.

Dylan: That's funny.

Deepa: Yeah, we will get more Page five. Drama, which is kind of fun. 

Cameron: I forget what page five is.

Deepa: I forget what it is. It's also hilarious that Mona has stolen it, knowing that that's not Alison’s autopsy. Just sowing chaos, I guess. 

Cameron: Mind games.

Deepa: I don't know if she knows about Bethany yet, and knows whose body it actually is, but she knows it's not Alison.

Cameron: Mona probably knows whose body it is. She knows.

Deepa: She probably would have figured it out by now. Yeah.

Dylan: I kind of get it now. Why, she's like doing all this like that's probably a lot of pressure like just knowing all that stuff. And then she's gonna be like AHH

Cameron: And a hyper realized adrenalized state, or whatever.

Deepa: Adrenalized hyperreality

Cameron: Thank you.

Deepa: But okay, Mona doesn't know everything, though, like she doesn't know who Charlotte is. So, and she doesn't know that when she starts doing A stuff again. She doesn't know that Charlotte's the one directing it. So I think we have to assume that Mona learns some things along the way. Not that she knows everything now.

Cameron: I guess. sure potentially.

Dylan: You know, as they say in the episode. he confessed, he's dead, case closed. I think that's where we're at with the episode at this point. 

Cameron: Yeah. The lawyer said it. So we're good.

Deepa: Exactly. Veronica showed up for like five minutes.

Cameron: To chop some cucumbers.

Deepa: And to like, not be weirded out by Peter burning the hockey stick.

Cameron: No, she's like, it's very funny, that conversation she's just like you only need to know that you can't trust them.

Deepa: Trust the DiLaurentises because one of them is your brother. The amount that Veronica fucking put up with from Peter before she eventually leaves him. But that doesn’t happen for a while.

Cameron: Yeah. That doesn't happen for a while. He’s wheeew.

Deepa: Also, maybe they get back together at the end. It's very unclear in the last few seasons, because she's like Dylan, she like runs for office. At one point she becomes a State Senator.

Cameron: Yeah

Dylan: Oh my god!

Deepa: I think it's implied that they're still together. But maybe for the politics of it all. 

Dylan: Classic politics, yeah.

Deepa: I don't know if it's that big a deal when you're running for state senate to like, be not have the perfect family, or whatever.

Cameron: I mean, they probably want like one bit of normalcy, right? The Hastings.

Deepa: I guess yeah. And no, I don’t know for state senators, just I don't think it's as like that visible.

Cameron: Yes, there's.

Deepa: They usually have, like Other jobs at the same time. So.

Cameron: hmm other jobs.

Deepa: The State senators I know, are like veterinarians and shit. Okay, Dylan, do you have a guest recipe for our final segment, which is called chickpeas. Oh my gosh!

Cameron: Chickpeas! Oh my gosh.

Dylan: Chickpeas Oh my gosh! I Like that addition! Yes, so it is One pot Chickpea shakshuka. It looks really good; basically just make it the same way you just add some chickpeas to it. Sounds great.

Deepa: Amazing 

Dylan: just if listeners are gonna actually make it get some fresh bread like from a bakery, not just toast. Just get like really good, really good bread, and so that way you could dip it in. It's really delicious. Yum yum yum.

Deepa: That sounds really good. Yeah, I would eat that right now.

Dylan: Me too.

Deepa: Cool. Well, Dylan? Do you want to sign us off.

Cameron: No, I think we should all say it at the same time that’s my favorite thing.

Dylan: Fuck. Damn it.

Dylan: I don’t Even remember what it is.

Cameron: Perfect You didn’t remember last time.

Dylan: And I think that’s why Cameron is making us do this.

Deepa: Yes, exactly.

Cameron: Okay, one, two, three, go.

All: Act Normal bitches! 

Dylan: I said it! I said it right! 

Deepa: You did!