Episodes 2.02 & 2.03: "Your Family Has the Worst Apples"

We stand in full support of Palestinian liberation and believe that Israel should end its genocidal violence and occupation. If you don’t agree, please fuck off.

This week, we cover 2.02, “The Goodbye Look”, and 2.03, “My Name is Trouble”! We discuss apologies, ableism, Ali flashbacks, whether there’s anyone buried in the DiLaurentis yard yet, and of course, the most chaotic characters. We use too many phrases from cooking shows, and Cameron sings a Deepa not-so-original song for us. 

Our awesome theme song is composed by Ashok R. Chandran! You can find his other work at his website. 

Episode Transcript: Read it on Buzzsprout!

Chickpeas Oh My Gosh: Roast them with your favorite spices! 

Fashion Analysis: Our best and worst outfits, and a couple others we mentioned!

Deepa’s Literary Analysis: Ezra quotes Joseph Campbell in his goodbye speech to his Rosewood High English class. Unfortunately Joseph Campbell was an anti-Black, antisemitic, racist, sexist, homophobic fuck, and the “Hero’s Journey” is trash

Things We Referenced Related to PLL: 

• Mona calling Aria “Big A” is part of the Aria is A theory!

Things We Referenced Completely Unrelated to PLL: 

• CSI: Miami’s Wing Chicks!
• The Danby scout being Community’s banana man (content warning for zombies. yes, zombies)
• Scouting in Friday Night Lights
• Sooo many Kesha songs (We’ve decided the hummus song is referencing The Harold Song, a not super popular Kesha song from 2010)

Find us on Twitter: @chickpeas_pod

If you enjoyed this podcast (or even if you didn't), please consider donating to help Rozan and Aboud, two young people in Gaza, escape genocide with their families. You can find multiple donation options at oldcowcreative.com!

Transcript

Deepa: Welcome back everyone to Don’t Forget the Chickpeas, your favorite Pretty Little Liars rewatch podcast. Podcast! Not just rewatch. This is your favorite of all your PLL podcasts.

Cameron: Every PLL podcast you listen to, this is the best.

Deepa: Today we're talking about episodes two and three of the second season. Number 2 is called “The Goodbye Look”, and number 3 is called “My Name Is Trouble”.

Cameron: Haha!

Deepa: Oh, and I'm Deepa.

Cameron: I'm Cameron. You should know that by now, though, right?

Deepa: Probably. Yeah. I didn't look up anything about these titles or try to understand them. But yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, I think they were fine, like “My Name Is Trouble” is hilarious.

Deepa: Does it mean anything, like, is it a reference…?

Cameron: I don't know. I don't know. I'm glad that we didn't do any investigation. [both laugh] I had like an initial just like thought about these two episodes that was just like, people were so chaotic!

Deepa: Oh my fucking god. Yeah.

Cameron: I don't know if it's like, season two, we gotta up the ante. Just, like, Spencer?

Deepa: So I feel like Spencer's chaoticness is still in line with what we saw in the first season, just escalated, right? Like it's clear that it's Melissa who brings out her chaos, and like conflict with Melissa. So that part is, I mean, it feels very similar to the essay, just like ratcheted it up so much by taking her ring!

Cameron: I just when – when she found the ring I was like oh, gosh! I remembered that she pawned it. And then she did!

Deepa: She pawns it! For money to buy Toby a truck, like, that's not the only truck in the world, and if you have the money in your bank account, you could just wait!

Cameron: I am also confused about why – like, they're usually very like “let's get close to the source and see what's going on” kind of situation. Does she think Jason's gonna murder Toby? Like I don't know. I feel like they're very like, “Let's get some intel. Let's, like, Toby's like inside.”

Deepa: I see. I see. Yes, yeah, I think she thinks that Toby’s going to stumble upon the secret of Ian being in the house, and then they might murder him.

Cameron: Okay. So Toby will get murdered.

Deepa: I think, or like something else. Bad, you know. But.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I think that's the fear. But you know I didn't even get the sense that that was why Spencer was doing it. I thought she was doing it to like cheer Toby up, so he could go have this other job that he really wants, you know.

Cameron: Yeah. But she was very much like, “Please quit this job. Please don't do this.” Like it also was coming from that.

Deepa: You're right. You're right. I didn't think about it that way. But yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Spencer. The thing that frustrates me about the chaos, both with Spencer and Emily, is that they know now that these are things they can be blackmailed for.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: And they’re still doing them without thinking too hard about them. Because of fucking course A was gonna take your letter and actually send it, like…? What are you doing!

Cameron: She tore it up, Deepa, okay? It's in the trash! I think the one that – like, I remembered the pawning. I remember the letter. I did not remember Hanna deleting a text message from her dad's fiancée.

Deepa: Yeah. It's funny, because when this plot line starts of Tom and Ashley kind of reconnecting, it's unclear at first whether Hanna is on board with it or not, right? Like part of her is like worried that her dad is like leading Ashley on. But I think it's very natural for her to, even if she's still worried about that, to want it to happen, right?

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: She wants her parents to get back together. She wants her dad to actually be in her life. She wants to feel like her family is prioritized. So I also forgot about the deleting the text just because I wasn't sure where Hanna was in her take on the situation at the moment, like whether she was supporting it or not, but I did remember that she ultimately does want them to get back together. So. But yeah. Yeah. Hanna. 

Cameron: Hanna!

Deepa: I just don't know what that's supposed to do. It's not like she's gonna stop texting your dad because you deleted one text. 

Cameron: She’s probably gonna call him. It's wild. Ugh, we had way too much Tom in these two episodes.

Deepa: So much Tom. I gave Tom worst parent.

Cameron: Me too.

Deepa: I didn't give a best parent because no one was doing anything good.

Cameron: No, I like thought about giving Pam best parent because I was like, she's being very reasonable about this like swimming thing.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: But like her taking of Emily's phone, and her like…

Deepa: Frankly, her apology pissed me off. Because – we talked about this before, and I knew it was coming –  but Pam's shift into recognizing that she was homophobic to her daughter is like not enough for me in terms of all the other things she's done and what she did to Maya. So, even though it was better than before, it still gets me off because it wasn't enough. 

Cameron: No, it didn't actually – did she say “I'm sorry”?

Deepa: That’s a good point. She did not! She just said, “It makes me really sad that you felt this way.” I guess she didn’t actually say the words “I’m sorry”!

Cameron: I feel she was like, “Oh, man, it sucks that you had to like hide a part of yourself from me.”

Deepa: Yeah, negative points. Pam, negative points for that.

Cameron: Yeah, my b, my b. It was just a thought, it didn't get actually written down. So.

Deepa: Back to Tom for worst parent.

Cameron: Ugh.

Deepa: I love the confirmation that when Hanna was in the hospital, it's not just that we didn't see him come in, it's that he actually didn't come visit. He just sent her a plant. After she got hit by a car.

Cameron: She got hit by a car.

Deepa: Like they very well could have been like, “Oh, yeah, your dad was here,” the same way they were like, “Oh, yeah, Sean was here.” But they didn't. They actually said he didn't come and visit her. Like she was in the fucking hospital! But like, now that she's in the newspaper, he's here. So.

Cameron: Yeah, their vibe, like him and Ashley's vibe was so weird like, when they're drinking wine, or they're about to drink wine, and he's like, “Oh, maybe I should make us a martini instead.” And there was just like all this meaning behind that that was like, ugh, like, does that mean, like they're gonna have sex if he makes a martini?

Deepa: Probably! Wine is just normal. Ashley drinks wine with anyone, even with random teenagers. 

Cameron: That's true. Martini means sex. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, he's just – ugh, he's so skeevy, like. I don't know, even when he is like being gregarious and stuff, he just…I don't know. And he had this horrible line, what was it…when Hanna talks to him about why she doesn't trust him, and she says it very clearly, and his response is, “Nobody ever made a mistake on purpose.”

Cameron: That doesn't mean anything. What are you saying? Like, sure. But what? 

Deepa: And again, I don't know if he apologizes in that conversation either. He's just mostly like, “I fucked up.” Which is – “I fucked up” needs to be a part of your apology, but you also need to like own up to something beyond it being a mistake right? Like you need to show how you're gonna be better, how you're gonna regain her trust, or try to. You know.

Cameron: Yeah, ‘cause he's just always surprised that she's not like wanting to hang out with him and like doesn't feel close, or like, you know he's just  –  he's being taken by surprise that his behaviors have consequences in his relationship with his daughter. It's kind of incredible.

Deepa: It is, it is, yeah. And it astonishes me, too, that Ashley sees him as backing her up. I guess…what is he meaningfully backing her up on? The separation of the friends, I guess. But like. I mean, they're not listening to that, anyway, like. What is Ashley getting out of this beyond like him just being there and being shitty, right?

Cameron: Yeah, ‘cause him backing Ashley up doesn't make Hanna more compelled to follow that, right? Like, if she's not like bought into him…ugh, yeah. I hate how much he's just like, “I'm here for you. I think this is a great idea.” And it's just like, you've been here once. What do you…

Deepa: You know nothing about what she's been through this past year! Except maybe what you read in the newspaper.

Cameron: Which we know that what you read in the newspaper is truth, always.

Deepa: I do think it's funny how bad a job all the parents are doing of enforcing these rules.

Cameron: Oh my god!

Deepa: Like. Spencer's parents forbid her from anything: seeing her boyfriend, seeing her friends. And then they just leave! They just go to New York, so she can like do whatever she wants! Like. Melissa doesn't give a fuck at this point, she’s off in the barn or whatever. And even Pam, who you'd think would be the strictest – and is strict, like the whole phone rules and everything – but like two minutes after she tells Emily, “You can't have your phone after school,” Emily is calling Spencer because she's realized that the laptop’s been wiped. And I'm like – fuck Pam for doing it at the first place, but she's also not even enforcing it, because they call each other all the time.

Cameron: All the time!

Deepa: And like going to movies together.

Cameron: But the movie was a dream, right?

Deepa: Oh, good point, good point. Yes, the movie was a dream. Good point, because that was terrifying.

Cameron: That was so scary. I was like, oh my god! But no, it was Spencer's fucked up dream.

Deepa: Also, why is Spencer sleeping on the couch? And why does Melissa not care? Like she's so scared! She asks Emily to come over for a sleepover because she’s terrified, when her sister is right there.

Cameron: Yeah, their interactions were so, like…interesting, these two episodes? Because it's just the two of them, right? And Melissa is just like waiting…Melissa is running around with Wren helping Ian heal from his wounds, or whatever. She got an ultrasound, so she is pregnant. She has a like tiny little bean. And like she wakes Spencer up from a nap trying to find her ring. And it's just like – yeah, Spencer, being like so scared, and Melissa just being like, “Don't ask me to choose between you and my husband.” What?

Deepa: That conversation was so intense and like so heartbreaking, because you could also – so I think it's really interesting to think about in the context of what we know Melissa’s done. Because I do feel like some of that intensity – and, like Melissa was also, I think, moved by it – but I think she has all this like bitterness in her, because Spencer doesn't know that she did this horrible thing for her, and I think she's like a little bit taking that out on Spencer, right? 

Cameron: Ah.

Deepa: Like she did this for Spencer, but I think she's also resentful about it, especially because Spencer continues to insist that Ian killed Alison, right? So I think she was moved by it in the sense that, like, I think she saw the heart of what Spencer was asking for, but was like – I think there's a little bit of a like, I already chose you. And look what it's fucking done to my life.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: I don't know. I don't know. That's how I'm choosing to read it.

Cameron: No, that makes so much sense, because I was like, she has chosen you in the past.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. And I think it's like a backlash from that.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Because she looked genuinely moved in that, but like in a troubled way, right? Like when Spencer’s talking about the bully about, you know, the bully that Melissa stood up to for her and stuff. So yeah, I think Melissa just like really has twisted things around so much because she fell back in love with Ian, and because Spencer is saying that Ian killed Alison, so.

Cameron: Mhm.

Deepa: Also, is Ian in Jason’s house? I can’t remember.

Cameron: I don't – I have no idea.

Deepa: I think he might be? But why is Jason letting him stay there? And…

Cameron: I get Jason interrogating Spencer, kind of, like, “Hey, what did he actually say?” Like, “Did he confess?” But like it's weird if he's staying in his house.

Deepa: Yeah. I mean, I guess because at this point what they actually have on Ian is the NAT Club shit, and Jason is complicit in that too?

Cameron: Sure.

Deepa: So maybe that's why they're banding together? But it's weird, like, Ian also was abusing your sister. 

Cameron: And your other sister.

Deepa: And your other sister! Both your sisters! [both crack up] And is married to your other sister!

Cameron: To your other sister!

Deepa: Oh my god. I can't wait for that reveal.

Cameron: What a good time!

Deepa: We got the mention of him being afraid of his grandmother disinheriting him, which I think is how we eventually get to finding out that he's Peter's son, because I think they find like letters in the grandmother's attic, or something.

Cameron: Classic.

Deepa: You said the exact same thing when we talked about this in an episode last season!

Cameron: Oh no!

Deepa: No, you're consistent! [both laugh] Maybe Melissa called him. Maybe Melissa was like, “Hey, I need your help, Ian needs a place to crash.”

Cameron: Oh, that's interesting.

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

Cameron: Because there was people renting that house? Maya was renting it, and then they left.

Deepa: No, they bought it. They bought it. Maya’s family bought it.

Cameron: They bought it.

Deepa: And then I think the DiLaurentises bought it back.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: I think. Maybe they were renting. But the reason I'm skeptical that they were renting is because they were digging up like something to put in like a gazebo, and that's when they find Alison's body. And I feel like you don't do that as a renter. Maya’s family, I mean. Right? In the first episode, Maya’s family just moved in. They're digging up for – maybe not a gazebo, maybe they're putting like a studio or something. And they're digging up parts of the yard deep enough that they find what we know is Bethany's body.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: So I don't think they were renting. Anyway. I guess it doesn’t really matter if they were renting or buying.

Cameron: Wait, who…is there a body in the front garden?

Deepa: I don’t think so, I was wondering about that too! Because the dog is there. And the confusing part is that this exact thing happens when Jessica is buried there.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: I think she's buried in the same place, and they find out because of a dog. 

Cameron: Right!

Deepa: But that doesn’t happen for like three more seasons.

Cameron: That's all I was thinking, I was like, Jessica's not dead yet, so whose body is the dog obsessed within the garden?

Deepa: I don't think there is a body. I think it's just supposed to show that Jason is like being weirdly overprotective of this space and putting up fences. But it's weird because they focus so much on the dog, and A focuses on the dog. So.

Cameron: And there's like a weird tarp in the garden.

Deepa: That's true. There is a weird tarp. But I really – I don't – who else could be buried there?

Cameron: I don't know!

Deepa: I don't think anyone else is dead yet!

Cameron: Okay. Okay.

Deepa: No, I had that same question.

Cameron: It's like, what's going on?

Deepa: We should talk about Jenna and Aria, because it makes me so mad.

Cameron: Oh my god.

Deepa: So mad. So mad! Firstly, when Aria joins this class and realizes that Jenna's there, and then she's telling Ezra about it afterwards, Ezra was like, “You guys have a lot in common. Maybe this is a good opportunity.” And Aria goes, “I just don't think Jenna is that forgiving of a person.” And I'm like, what the fuck have you all done for her to forgive you? You haven't done anything to apologize. Apology would be the least of it! But you haven't even done that. You have framed her as an antagonist and a threat the entire time for, what you did to her. Like why the fuck would she forgive you! You haven't asked for forgiveness. You've just been – you've been harming her more! Aaah!

Cameron: Kind of consistently just over a long period of time. Yeah. Yeah, we get like the reveal that she's in the pottery class, of course, with sinister music.

Deepa: Even thought she was there first, as Ezra points out.

Cameron: She was there first! She wants to do pottery. It has nothing to do with you, Aria!

Deepa: Nothing!

Cameron: I know this is hard to believe, but. God, it's so bad cause, she lies and says she's a different person. But Jenna obviously knows her voice.

Deepa: That's the thing, Aria knows exactly what she's doing. She knows that Jenna is not there to fuck with her, because she thinks she can get away with the lie, right? If Jenna were there to fuck with her, then she would know she was in the class. But Aria is pretending. Like, you know. So she thinks she's getting away with it. But she also is like trying not to speak that often. She knows exactly what she's doing! And then in the final scene, which is so heartbreaking, Aria has like one sympathy for Jenna then, right? Because she, like, actually hears Jenna talking about her experience and what she's gone done. And then, after Jenna figures out that it's her, her response is, “Well, if Jenna was A, then I just like shook her up, I just rattled her cage.” Like they can't frame it in any other way than Jenna possibly being A and like threatening them. Aria can even take a – like, in that moment she felt sympathy, but afterwards she can't even take a moment to be like, “Oh, I fucked up and hurt this person really badly,” even in this one part, like, let alone their whole history. You know?

Cameron: Yeah, like, she was incredibly vulnerable, and just like sharing…like. Ugh.

Deepa: Yeah! It's almost like Aria took her realizing that it was Aria as a threat itself, right like. “Oh, she like shut me down when I like was doing this. Because I'm Aria, She's like now antagonistic.” Like of fucking course she is! You lied to her!

Cameron: You lied.

Deepa: You constantly lie to her, you constantly take advantage of her blindness to either, like, physically or otherwise harm her.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Also, every time they hang out in a bathroom, I just think about Hanna slapping Jenna, so. Fuck that.

Cameron: Yeah. So I guess this episode is like all about apologizing, or maybe like should be apologizing?

Deepa: Should be!

Cameron: Like forgiveness. I think Mona says, “No one's ever forgiven me before. It feels spiritual.”

Deepa: Mona! [both laugh] Mona absolutely did not have good intentions with throwing away Caleb's letter, but I still support her.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: And support Hanna forgiving her.

Cameron: Even if it took Hanna's dad to get her to make that fucking…whatever.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. And she apologized to – well, she didn't apologize also, but she went to Lucas and tries to like make amends.

Cameron: Hmm.

Deepa: Which is also weird, ‘cause. I don't know, when Ashley was saying the part about “people can grow and change, people shouldn’t be defined by one mistake,” I thought that was leading into a Caleb interaction. And it didn't. So it was leading into like Hanna being like, “I've grown and changed since the weird dance where I danced with you instead of Sean,” you know. Which, like, yeah, I think it's good for her to own up to that being kind of shitty, but, like, Lucas also hasn't owned up to the way he acted around Hanna being shitty. Particularly when he's comparing his reluctance in asking this new girl out to him hitting on Hanna when she had a boyfriend, and had been very clear about them being friends. Like that's not the same thing.

Cameron: No.

Deepa: Your getting rejected by Hanna in that is not the same thing as if this girl rejects you. Like you should get used to rejection anyway. But you're like “batting average” being bad when you ask out a girl with a boyfriend, that might not work out.

Cameron: It's not gonna be great! And who has explicitly said you’re friends, regardless of if she has a boyfriend! [both laugh] Oh my god, Hanna talking to…Danielle, is that Lucas's potential person?

Deepa: Yes.

Cameron: I like watched a lot of CSI: Miami in high school, once I was like allowed to watch television. And you know how like a lot of murder shows like go into like one specific subculture where their murder has happened.

Deepa: Mhm.

Cameron: Like you learn about it as you're investigating this murder. There's this like company called like Wing Chicks? Where it’s like, dudes hire these women to like, pretend they're friends with them, and then other women will like have sex with this dude if they think they have like women friends.

Deepa: Wing Chicks!

Cameron: Wing Chicks. So that is the only thing I could think of.

Deepa: That is incredible.

Cameron: Hanna was a Wing Chick employee.

Deepa: Oh my god, that's so funny. Wow. Yeah, she was hilarious. I'm surprised Danielle bought it.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Bought it enough to ask Lucas out for coffee right? Like to ask to see his photos is one thing, but to like actually ask him out for coffee is…yeah, impressive, Hanna. I don't know how you did that.

Cameron: We also get a moment of Mona calling Aria “Big A”.

Deepa: Yes! Yes.

Cameron: Fascinating.

Deepa: “Aria Is A” theory! Spread by Mona, who's actually A!

Cameron: I liked it.

Deepa: My two favorite A moments were that, and when they're all in the cafeteria, and they decide they can't sit together, and then Mona gives Hanna like this really cute little look of like, aww, will you sit next to me? And Hanna turns away, and the Mona immediately texts all of them, like, haha.

Cameron: So funny. Why do they have to keep it up at school? Their parents never know what they're doing at school.

Deepa: Ella works at the school!

Cameron: Oh, I forgot about that. We haven’t seen her in a while.

Deepa: We didn’t see her, but she does work at this school!

Cameron: Okay, that's a good point. Damn. [both laugh]

Deepa: We probably didn't see her for budget reasons, but we have to imagine that she's there.

Cameron: She was probably working, I guess.

Deepa: Exactly. Speaking of school…

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Ezra’s fucking goodbye speech was the most disgusting thing I've ever heard.

Cameron: I like don't have anything to say. It was just like fucking horrible.

Deepa: Horrifying. I guess he doesn't know that the other Liars know about him and Aria, so he thinks he's getting away with it, but like. It's also pretty obvious, cause he's standing near Aria, and it's just – it's just so bad. Even if he gets away with it, like, it's so fucking gross. Like he's been trying to manipulate Aria into forgiving him this whole time, and the way he does it is to use the classroom setting to like send her this message that she can't get away from. She has to sit there, because of his position of authority in this classroom, right? Like horrifying. Horrifying! I do love that the gift the class gives him is just the book that he taught them that's on every high school curriculum.

Cameron: To Kill a Mockingbird, I love that. I appreciated that. 

Deepa: You have to take high school with you everywhere.

Cameron: Yeah, it was that speech, and then Aria running after him and making out in the fucking parking lot at the high school – 

Deepa: The high school parking lot.

Cameron: – in which I – I'm still sort of recovering from a vertigo incident , and like that made me want to puke. I was just like this is horrible.

Deepa: I fast-forwarded through the running.

Cameron: That's smart. That's very smart.

Deepa: I knew what was gonna happen. I couldn't handle it. And yeah, he just manipulated her into getting back with him.

Cameron: And then like immediately is unable to show up and do literally anything. 

Deepa: I think that's before.

Cameron: That's before?

Deepa: Yeah. And this is for forgiving him for that. Yeah.

Cameron: Ew.

Deepa: Mhm. Yup. I do love that she put the note in his typewriter, like that's just like the pretentious bullshit that like…

Cameron: I did like that.

Deepa: Yeah, I think that happens between –

Cameron: That was before.

Deepa: Yeah, he announces to the class sometime in the week, and then he has this meeting, and Aria is upset at him. And she's been like waffling on where they stand at all, and then, like the Friday, or whatever, is when the last thing happens. And then she just then – they never talk about it again, like they don't talk about – at least, she doesn't talk to him about the Jackie stuff. The other Liars talk to her a little bit about Jackie, but. And then they're just like happy on campus. And of course Jackie is there.

Cameron: Oh my god! Their campus shit is disgusting.

Deepa: So disgusting! Ugh.

Cameron: Like they're just holding hands, and…

Deepa: Making jokes about prison for absolutely no reason.

Cameron: Why are we always doing that?

Deepa: Always, always.

Cameron: We can't not make jokes about prison.

Deepa: Apparently. I have one more thing from the class, from the high school classroom, which is that – this is my literary analysis for the episode – 

Cameron: Yes please.

Deepa: – which is that he quotes Joseph Campbell at the end.

Cameron: Oh, yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, weirdly. And Joseph Campbell is best known for his quote-unquote “monomyth”, this idea that all folklore around the world follows the course of what he calls the “hero's journey”. Which, like, is not only complete bullshit in itself, but he was a racist, anti-Black, antisemitic, sexist fuck – 

Cameron: Oh!

Deepa: – and it is not only in-character for Ezra to quote him, but unfortunately in-character, for, like, high school English teachers in general to fawn over him…even though he was this horrible person with a horrible theory that itself is like imperialist and ethnocentric. And the only reason it got famous was because George Lucas needed a way to make Star Wars sound like more literary. So he talked about how Star Wars follows the hero’s journey, and that's how it got – like before that no one outside of like folklore studies circles had even heard of him. So. Fuck Joseph Campbell and fuck Ezra.

Cameron: That's so shitty, I had no idea. I just know about the hero’s journey. Yeah.

Deepa: I think, like, the fact of the hero’s journey, like the idea of a monomyth in in itself is like fucked up and imperialist, right? Because it's this idea that we have this core story that can be understood by anyone, and that you don't have to think about any cultural context to understand like stories from other places, and that they all follow this thing that you based off of Greek mythology – or probably based specifically off The Odyssey, right? So that's bad in and of itself. But like also, he was just blatantly really horrible. Like he worked at Sarah Lawrence, that's where he had spent most of his academic career, and he didn't like that Black people were allowed admission to Sarah Lawrence. He like said all sorts of fucked up antisemitic shit, like it was really bad. One of his colleagues called him a crypto-fascist.

Cameron: Oh! Crypto-fascist.

Deepa: I don't know what the crypto part means.

Cameron: I can only think of crypto-currency, unfortunately. Is that what we're talking about?

Deepa: No, because he died in 1989.

Cameron: Interesting. [both laugh] Crypto-fascist. Yeah.

Deepa: Maybe it's like a hidden fascist, because, like, crypto's like mystery.

Cameron: Oh!

Deepa: I don't know. Anyway. Yeah. So that's my literary analysis. But English teachers do love him. I don't know why. Fortunately I never got taught Joseph Campbell in high school, but I know that it's a thing.

Cameron: Ew. Very Ezra. Good job.

Deepa: Very Ezra.

Cameron: We get our first instances of Mike stealing shit! Things are missing around the neighborhood.

Deepa: Camping gear is gone! I do think it makes sense that they think that's Ian because of what he would need to be surviving.

Cameron: Absolutely.

Deepa: Yeah, it's clever. Clever plotting there. He just like pummels into Aria, though, like, that's aggressive, Mike.

Cameron: She's not that big! Like yeah, that's a – whew!

Deepa: Mike isn’t that big either.

Cameron: That's true. I just – he was coming with the force of running down the stairs.

Deepa: And I don't know if he knew who it was, because it was dark, and so he…but whoever it was, he just like plowed into them. Mike.

Cameron: Yeah. It gets revealed because he steals Jenna's pottery, right?

Deepa: Yes. Yes, you're so right!

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: But there's also some connection with Jason, because Jason then like is like helping them deal with things? Because he's like troubled?

Cameron: Oh my god! He does like mentor troubled children, right.

Deepa: And he, like, does something for…yeah. Okay, isn't there like a weird dinner? The Montgomerys are having a dinner party, and for some reason they invite Ezra and Jason, and both of them are like weird about Aria during the dinner. But like Aria is freaking out the whole time, because something's going on with Mike, and then they have to deal with that. And I think that's when they find out.

Cameron: Oh my god, I can kind of vaguely picture that. But yeah. So weird.

Deepa: I could be wrong about the timing of it. That could be a different time. But I think it's some like sometime soon.

Cameron: So is Jason just over cause he's like helping Mike?

Deepa: No, I think at that point he's over just because Ella was like, “Oh, he's back in the neighborhood, and like I wanted to be neighborly,” or something. But Aria doesn’t live near them, does she?

Cameron: I don't know.

Deepa: Hmm. Spencer and Alison and Emily and Toby maybe all live near each other? I don't know where Aria lives. Anyway, whatever. Oh! Maybe it's because Jason has like started mentoring at the school and Ella sees him there. I don't know. I'm just making up shit at this point!

Cameron: Sure. Why not? 

Deepa: Like Byron's working with Ezra, and Ella’s working with Jason. So.

Cameron: We just bring the boys home. Sorry, they’re both men. 

Deepa: Bring the men home so that they can both creepily hit on your teenage daughter. Yeah.

Cameron: Ew. Ew.

Deepa: The scout from Danby is a recurring character in Community, and my overwhelming association with him that he dresses up as a banana for Halloween, and that's all I can think when I see him, so I can't take him seriously. He’s a giant banana!

Cameron: Giant banana. Where is Danby? Do we know?

Deepa: Somewhere nearby, because they talk about her needing to stay in the district? But he also says she needs to stay at Rosewood because they have a good program.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: But why the district specifically?

Cameron: I don't know.

Deepa: I don't know anything about scouting. All I know about scouting may be from Friday Night Lights.

Cameron: Which yeah, we learned in Friday Night Lights is also a slippery thing and can get pulled at any moment.

Deepa: Any moment! Really bold of Emily to ask for this now.

Cameron: Yes. I like the A note of “you can’t play cat and mouse if the mouse moves to Texas”.

Deepa: Very nice, Mona! I love it!

Cameron: Solid stuff.

Deepa: Emily and Samara… I think they're cute, but I still don't really think they have chemistry. I stand by that.

Cameron: Hmm.

Deepa: So. Like, yeah, I support them. But they're not gonna last for very long. I support them, you know, having a nice time right now, but I don't totally buy it.

Cameron: Yeah, they're cute. Their convos are cute and like going to the movies. And I don't know. Yeah. I'm glad Emily has something going on.

Deepa: Yeah. Seriously.

Cameron: Yeah.

Cameron: We got some like Ali flashbacks, or maybe just one? No, more than one.

Deepa: We got a couple. Yeah.

Cameron: Yeah. We got one of my favorites where she says, “Spencer, why does your family have like the worst apples?”

Deepa: I thought of you when she said that, ‘cause you love that line!

Cameron: It's so funny, ‘cause they are! Like they're fucking like Red Delicious, or something. 

Deepa: They look bad. 

Cameron: Those are never good. They're always mealy.

Deepa: Can you tell we're from a place that has opinions about apples?

Cameron: Yeah. So… they're rich people. Buy nice apples. I don't know.

Deepa: Do they eat them, though, or are they just there to look good? You’d think they would eat – well. I was gonna say, you’d think they would eat fruit, but apples probably are the like highest sugar content but also least nutritious. So maybe they don't. Maybe they're just there to look good.

Cameron: Ew. Yeah, that's a possibility.

Deepa: Melissa does eat once in this episode because she's so sad, and I'm just like, Melissa! Just eat  generally! You don't have to be sad to eat. You kind of need to eat all the time.

Cameron: You could just eat.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Is that she eats one of Spencer's weird fake homemade treats? Or is there something else?

Deepa: Yeah, I couldn’t tell what they were, were they brownies?

Cameron: I think they were brownies.

Deepa: Okay. Anyway. Back to Alison flashback. First flashback was when Jason comes and is like, “Stay out of my stuff,” blah blah. So that's to give us something about Jason, I guess, at that point. And second flashback is also supposed to tell us about Jason, even though he's not in it. But yeah, what a fucked up situation like. She’s like thirteen or fourteen, and she's in this house with all these older guys. And like, we know that she is someone who has been abused a lot. So. I just really felt for her in that.

Cameron: Yeah, I just felt so bad. And like her hiding things is like the power that she has, or like, the only like way to…yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. That and the grandmother disinheritance.

Cameron: Oh, right, the will, yeah. That's true.

Deepa: But yeah, no, it's not much. Yeah. She's been through a fucking lot.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I don't think Ali says this line, but we get a quote that someone else says is what Ali used to say, which is, “You're not lying. You're just pre-telling the truth.” Hanna says it about Emily sending the Danby letter.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah, you're not lying.

Deepa: Hanna’s really excited.

Cameron: Yeah. Hanna's on board.

Deepa: So on board.

Cameron: Aria's not on board, but.

Deepa: No. No. Which I kind of agree with her, just from the perspective of A using it against them, right?

Cameron: Absolutely!

Deepa: Yeah. It's whatever in and of itself. But like guys, you guys stop giving A fodder. A is gonna find stuff anyway, but this – you’re just making it too easy!

Cameron: Mhm.

Deepa: So we have two different characters, this episode, who talk about how the police never help them.

Cameron: Aaaah!

Deepa: At the beginning, Hanna points it out when they're talking about…I don’t know what they're talking about. Oh, oh, they're in the greenhouse, and I think they're talking about Ian texting Melissa, maybe? 

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: And – I don't remember. Anyway, something where Hanna says, “Calling the cops has never worked for us.” And then later, Toby – Toby Cavanaugh, Toby fucking Cavanaugh, says to Spencer – when Spencer says, “If you want me to call the cops about this, I will,” Toby says, “Remind me, when was the last time the cops did either of us any good?” Yes, Toby, remind us.

Cameron: Remind yourself! I…

Deepa: Remind yourself in future! Of all people, Toby!

Cameron: Yeah, that was absurd. I was like, hold on to this, Toby. Come on, you can do it.

Deepa: He can't! He can't. You know, even though no time passes in this show, so it's only like a year later that he decides to become a cop. But nope. He cannot and will not hold on to this.

Cameron: God.

Deepa: Also. When did Toby get his hair cut? Was it between seasons, or did it happen on the first season? I didn't notice, but he's already getting into like…I mean, he's definitely already getting into carpenter. But he's getting into like, you know, no longer – 

Cameron: Emo?

Deepa: – alternative. Yeah.

Cameron: I don't remember. I'm so sorry.

Deepa: That's okay. That's okay.

Cameron: I was gonna transition to outfits. I more just had like items, I think?

Deepa: Okay.

Cameron: Less outfits themselves. Hanna wore a really ugly shirt that was like zippers and holes in it.

Deepa: Oh!

Cameron: Kind of cream colored, perhaps.

Deepa: Okay, I don't remember that one. I remember that Hanna was wearing like not very her kind of stuff, like she wore just a lot of like t-shirts.

Cameron: Mhm. But they were like, weird – what do I call it? How do I describe this t-shirt? Like, elevated?

Deepa: I think you’ve been watching too many cooking shows! [both crack up]

Cameron: Oh, no! Yeah, this “elevated t-shirt”! You know what I mean! Deconstructed t-shirt…

Deepa: T-shirt three ways.

Cameron: T-shirt three ways! It's a t-shirt, but it's actually a fusion of a tank top and a long-sleeve shirt…

Deepa: Oh my god! How far can we take this?

Cameron: I don't know. I think we have to stop.

Deepa: We just gotta cut it off. Gotta cut it off.

Cameron: Hmm! So that was gross to me. And I thought Mona had a really nice green shirt on. And Spencer had a nice little like denim shirt, with a little scarf thing on top of it, that I thought looked good.

Deepa: I liked that too. Yeah, with, like the gray blouse and like the high waisted skirt. Yeah, I liked that too. I didn't have strong opinions on any of it, really? I also liked Spencer's plaid poncho coat.

Cameron: That was cute.

Deepa: That was kind of cute, but that's again more of an item than the whole outfit. And then I liked Spencer's outfit when she has like a flowery blue blouse and black jeans, and then a white coat over it with big buttons. I kind of liked that. But I wasn't super super excited about anything, or like disgusted by anything. I did want to note that Ali for once had a cute outfit in the first flashback. She's wearing like this gray dress with a belt, I think. But it's actually like a tank top dress. And yeah, it's really cute. And Ali usually has horrible fashion in the flashbacks.

Cameron: She does.

Deepa: So that was notable. And then, it's not a bad outfit in and of itself, but Aria has an outfit that is so of the time that I was like laughing. She's wearing like a pink-red tank top with like another black tank top underneath. So you've got layers. And then it's like so long it goes down to the mid-thigh over jeans. And it's just like that. Yeah.

Cameron: Ugh! 

Deepa: Yeah, that was just so of the time.

Cameron: The layering of tank tops. And just the length!

Deepa: The length! And like, I loved that shit at the time like. The number of like camis I still own just because of that time, even though I don't really wear them anymore.

Cameron: Was there a belt on top of it, or no?

Deepa: No, there wasn't a belt on top of that, which is actually what made it stick out to me, because I think it was so long without being belted that it was just like, oh, yeah, that's this is how I would have worn it 2010 or 2011 or 2012.

Cameron: So you didn't have a worst?

Deepa: Not really? Aria has something in her hair that I can't figure out. What is it? Is it a feather?

Cameron: She has feathers in her hair. Yeah, like feathering. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, so that I was a little like meh on.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: But no, I just didn't feel strongly either way about outfits in these episodes.

Cameron: That’s fine. We'll accept that.

Deepa: I was so angry about so much other stuff that I didn’t have time to be angry about outfits!

Cameron: That is real.

Deepa: No, that's a blatant lie, because that could be true every episode.

Cameron: Wow! Lying. Lying, lying, lying, lying.

Deepa: Gotta lie on the Pretty Little Liars podcast.

Cameron: That's true. We need to do more lying.

Deepa: Well, is it time for our Chickpeas Oh My God! segment of the show?

Cameron: Yeah, so it's my turn. And I have a recipe from the chickpea book that I don't think I've shared yet. It is very simple, so I wouldn't put it in like the Deepa depression recipes category. But it's like one step above that.

Deepa: Okay. Okay.

Cameron: You get two cans of chickpeas and rinse them and try to dry them off if you can. Usually I don't attempt that part. And then you just put some spices in it and roast them.

Deepa: Oh, there we go.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah. 400 degrees.

Deepa: I was like, there's gotta be some effort in this, right? 

Cameron: There’s effort. There's a little bit of effort. Oh. And I'm sharing that mainly because it's easy, and it's, you know, approved by me. But there is also a song I would like to sing that you wrote.

Deepa: Okay, please tell me what I wrote.

Cameron: Aaah! Okay. Are you ready?

Deepa: Yes, I'm ready. Okay.

Cameron: I don't know if I am.

Deepa: I think I might know what song this is. So I'm curious.

Cameron: [singing] What you've got, bean, is hard to find
I think about it all the time

I’m all strung-out, I love you fried

I just can't catch you off my mind… 

Because chickpeas, chickpeas, chickpeas are my drug

Deepa: [cracking up]

Cameron: And the important thing is that at the bottom, you said that this was following other hits, which are “Party at a Falafel Maker's House”, “Gold Garbanzo”, “The Hummus Song”, and notably, “Blah Blah Chickpeas”.

Deepa: Wait. What's “The Hummus Song” a reference to?

Cameron: No idea.

Deepa: Okay, that's not what I was thinking of, and I have no recollection of writing that! But it sounds like me.

Cameron: It's your handwriting. So.

Deepa: It's my handwriting, it's my favorite Kesha song. I think all signs point to it being written by me. But. Oh my god!

Cameron: So, thank you for that.

Deepa: Oh, man, this is great, because my association with creating that notebook for you is just like sitting in my then-apartment in New York – my like tiny apartment that had no room outside of like my bed and like a tiny kitchen – and just like being sad and lonely in that apartment. So now we're like recreating associations for this. This is much better.

Cameron: And bringing our fans along.

Deepa: Fans. If you are familiar enough with Kesha's, you know, discography that you can tell me what I meant by “The Hummus Song”, please let me know, because I have no idea.

Cameron: I'll probably come up with it later.

Deepa: You'll come up with it. Cameron is the Kesha expert, so.

Cameron: Yeah, we'll let you know listeners, but feel free to email us either way. So I think it's just, what, DontForgetTheChickpeas@gmail.com? Yeah.

Deepa: You do check our email sometimes, right? ‘cause I don't think I ever do.

Cameron: No, I check our emails. Let me confirm real quick. It is DontForgetTheChickpeas@gmail.com. If you want to reach out to us, and for some reason you don't have our phone numbers. [both laugh]

Cameron: Thank you so much for coming back for season two, and all that this will entail. We will be back very soon, and until then: act normal bitches!