Season 2 Premiere: "Miss Me?"

Once again, because it unfortunately still needs to be said: we stand in full support of Palestinian liberation and believe that Israel should end its genocidal violence and occupation. If you don’t agree, please fuck off.

We’re back, bitches! Today we cover episode 2.01 “It’s Alive”. We discuss women’s sports films in India, therapist Anne, Pretty Little Liars: Summer School, and the possibility that there are many people that punch Ezra in the face that we don’t know about. Deepa reflects on our first season. Cameron doesn't remember anything. 

We have an amazing theme song now, composed by Deepa’s cousin Ashok R. Chandran!!! You can find his other work at his website. 

Episode Transcript: Read it on Buzzsprout!

Chickpeas Oh My Gosh: Put chickpeas in ramen! Just do it! 

Fashion Analysis: Our best and worst outfits! 

Things We Referenced Related to PLL:

• Tippi the bird is a Hitchcock reference! Apparently he was terrible to her.
• Mona bluesnarfing in the spinoff Pretty Little Liars: The Perfectionists
• Spinoff Pretty Little Liars: Original Sin’s usage of Psycho, and the continuation of PLL’s legacy - ableism, transphobia and abuse

Things We Referenced Completely Unrelated to PLL: 

• India has a lot of women’s sport movies! We can vouch for Chak De! India and Dangal being great, but you should definitely skip Mary Kom because it’s racist
• Glee’s “Rumor Has It / Someone Like You” mash up
• Luke’s bad therapist in Lovesick
• Characters in TV shows having posed photos in their rooms of just themselves - apparently a trend not only in Thai dramas but also many Korean dramas?
• Cobra Starship’s “Snakes on a Plane” song and snake lamp! 

Find us on Twitter: @chickpeas_pod

If you enjoyed this podcast (or even if you didn't), please consider donating to Free Lawrence Jenkins! Lawrence is an incredible abolitionist, artist, farmer, political educator, organizer, & friend of ours who is currently incarcerated. Help his defense committee to fight for his release!

Transcript

Cameron: Welcome back, bitches. We're here again. It's Don't Forget the Chickpeas, your favorite Pretty Little Liars podcast, season two!

Deepa: I'm Deepa.

Cameron: I’m Cameron.

Deepa: And we have some exciting new stuff in our podcast, primarily our new theme song, which was composed by my cousin Ashok Chandran! And we will link to where you can find his other music in the show notes. But yeah, super excited to have a theme song now. We're so official.

Cameron: Very official. Yeah, today, we are just covering the first episode in season two, which is called “It's Alive”. And just before we get to the business of the episode, Deepa has a couple of reflections up top.

Deepa: I do, because I re-listened to our entire podcast twice! Cameron is rolling her eyes. I've been kind of, I've been kind of sick and like, at a point where listening to things is better than looking at things. But I like can't pay attention to most podcasts except ours? Despite having heard it many times. So anyway, I have a few reflections based on my re-listening. One is that it is so funny how much we don't remember about this show that we've watched three times already. The time we spend speculating on future plot points for a show we've seen so many times is hilarious! And I say this, and then I watched the episode for today and was already like, wait. I didn't remember the things that happened. So. I think that will continue. But it is really funny, especially when you like binge through this whole podcast. So that was my first reflection. My second one was that Cameron, in one of our episodes, proposed coming up with our own version of the term “to play devil's advocate”. And we asked you all to email us. And no one emailed us. Which is not surprising. But I think we did come up with our own version, if I remember, just when we were talking, which was “joining the A team”.

Cameron: Yes, yes, yes.

Deepa: If you're cool with that, I think that's it.

Cameron: Yeah, like, “I'm just gonna join the A team here for a second.” Yeah, okay, I like that.

Deepa: Exactly. I think there are probably a lot of things that, if I'd like had the presence of mind to take more notes while I was re-listening, I would have said, oh, we should come back to this. But one thing that I remember was early on. I say something about – basically how there's this idea, like the “puriteen” idea? And this idea about how like teens, and young people right now, and Gen Z, like “hate sex”, and they like are “sex phobic”, and that's why blah, blah blah blah. And so like we do need to come back to that.

Cameron: Great. 

Deepa: I'm putting another pin in that. I think it's relevant to a lot of our conversations about all the abuse that happens in TV like PLL…so. And then my last note is just a very, very small one. It's from the part where you were talking about how no one wants to watch women play field hockey, which I think is true except for one major exception, which is fans of the 2007 Bollywood film Chak De! India. 

Cameron: Oh my gosh! I forgot!

Deepa: I forgot as well! But you definitely wanna watch those women play field hockey.

Cameron: Ah! What a film!

Deepa: It’s a good film, and we haven't re-watched it. We watched it – I mean, I've seen it more than once, but we watched it together in like 2013 or something. I had seen it in 2007 when it came out, in India weirdly enough, but we should do another re-watch because it is a fantastic film.

Cameron: I feel like we were in Portland, like maybe in 2019 or something, and they were playing it in the park, but like we missed it, but there was like a poster of it in… [Deepa gasps] And we were like, “Oh my god!”

Deepa: Oh my god!

Cameron: We fucked up!

Deepa: We fucked up! Man. Also, I was looking into it, because my memory was that India has a lot of women's sports films, which is like not unusual for the population of India, but unusual for the fact that India's not really known for women's sports, and like a lot of their women sports are not well supported and stuff. I think there's another one that just came out recently. I can't remember what sport it was, or the name. But we should look into that because there's a lot really good Indian women’s sports films! And like I'm not even counting, like, Bend It Like Beckham and like diaspora stuff, I mean from India.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: There's that; there’s – 

Cameron: The wrestling one.

Deepa: The wrestling one, exactly. There's one called Mary Kom, which is a Priyanka Chopra-Jonas film, which is like funny in and of itself. But also I think it's like – I think they cast basically a upper caste Hindu person to play a Northeast Indian person who comes from an ethnic minority, so probably not recommending that.

Cameron: Ugh. Got it, got it.

Deepa: Yeah, there's a bunch. There's a bunch. So anyway. Those are my reflections.

Cameron: Thank you so much. 

Deepa: Some deeper than others.

Cameron: Yeah, I was definitely – I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was surprised at my lack of remembering just of plot points that have happened the first season when I was watching this episode. And I thought maybe – 

Deepa: Oh, wait, you've already forgotten what happened in the first season? That’s funny.

Cameron: Yes, and I would like – I thought that the recap would help me more. I thought it would be more robust, but it was not. It was very like…

Deepa: You know what? I think because I listen to our podcast multiple times I actually remembered it pretty well, because I remember us talking about it! So that's how we remember this. Now you gotta re-listen to our own podcast.

Cameron: Maybe I will start integrating that practice into my…

Deepa: That's so funny. What was like confusing, or that you didn't remember? If there's anything you can think of off the top of your head.

Cameron: Oh my god! The one that I was like shouldn't have got me was, I was like, Noel Kahn’s back in school? And then I was like, oh, yeah, he got suspended, cause Mona planted drugs in his locker or something, but like that took me way too long to figure out.

Deepa: That's really funny. Also, I love that we have now created this myth that it was Mona planting drugs in his locker, because I think I said that early on, and I think we've like probably said that before. It was actually like test answers or something.

Cameron: Oh. Why do we think it’s…?

Deepa: So like not even as – well, like. Would he have been suspended for that long? Like. I don't know.

Cameron: Okay, I think it's drugs in the locker because of Veronica Mars. So that is – sorry. We'll move that aside.

Deepa: I think there’s also maybe drugs in the locker in Glee. Isn't that how Schuester blackmails Finn into joining the Glee Club?

Cameron: Ew. Have we gone… no, we have not made it to season two without mentioning Glee. I was gonna be excited, but no, we do not get that commendation.

Deepa: We will mention Glee, unfortunately, if only because of Adam Lambert.

Cameron: Yes. Thank you, Adam Lambert. I was answering some like music meme recently on social media where one of the one of the questions was “what is a song that reminds you of yourself?” And the only one I could come up with was the Glee “Rumor Has It / Someone Like You” cover, which is actually genuinely good.

Cameron: Wait, a song that reminds you of yourself?

Deepa: I don't know. They were really vague questions, so you can interpret them however you wanted. But like I don't know, that's song –  I don't know why I chose it. I didn't know what else to choose.

Cameron: It's a great song! Interesting. 

Deepa: Yup, yup.

Cameron: Shall we proceed?

Deepa: Yes. Okay. I didn't have things I'd forgotten, but I was super confused about why they all think that A is the one who, quote unquote, “murdered” Ian. And I like didn't go back and re-watch that episode to see if their implications that it should be A, but like why… I guess they're like, who else would randomly show up? But in mind, I guess, knowing who it is – the fact that we know who it is made me surprised that they thought it was A.

Cameron: I mean, Alison was wearing like gloves and a hoodie, I guess, which is A.

Deepa: But do they know that?

Cameron: Oh.

Deepa: Like the viewer knows that. But do they know that that's an A thing? Like this might be the first time they see someone wearing that get up and decide that it's A, you know?

Cameron: Good point, going point. Hmm. Right, ‘cause, it’s canon for me, ‘cause I see it in every like outro. 

Deepa: Exactly. Also that just reminded me of that Tiktok you sent me like a million years ago, but that sticks in my mind, which is of someone who's like working on homework and really cold, so they have their hood up and their gloves in front their laptop.

Cameron: Like, typing furiously.

Deepa: Yeah, exactly. Working on homework.

Cameron: I love that.

Deepa: I feel like if Tiktok had been around when PLL had actually been out, there would just be a lot of good PLL memes. I mean, there are a lot now, even, but even more.

Cameron: There are now. But it would be more. It's sporadic, I would say, at best, on my For You. Page. So yeah.

Deepa: That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Okay. Well, so you mentioned Noel Kahn. We had the reappearance of Noel Kahn, which was fun. We had the fact that he's dating Mona now – 

Cameron: Aaaah!

Deepa: – which is so funny! 

Cameron: But I don't think it lasts very long? I can't remember. At some point he dates Jenna too, like.

Cameron: He does?

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Oh my gosh, okay.

Deepa: The only reason I know that is because they're together in the Halloween episode.

Cameron: Ohh, sure, I’ve seen that, yeah. 

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah. Noel Kahn, Noel Kahn. I mean, they know he's not A now, I guess, but.

Cameron: He just shows up, “Miss me?” Incredible!

Deepa: Of course he’s friends with Alison! They have a lot in common!

Cameron: Yes! Very dramatic, very center of whatever.

Deepa: I want to know more about their friendship, and this show does not give us very much at all, but it's so fascinating to me that he's one of the very few people like who knew that she was alive.

Cameron: I feel like it's just him and Mona for so long, maybe, that know.

Deepa: Well, and Charlotte.

Cameron: Oh! And Charlotte. Charlotte, yes.

Deepa: Both in that – well – yeah, Charlotte – I don't know when Charlotte finds out, but, like Charlotte-as-Cece, is also helping Alison, so.

Cameron: That's true.

Deepa: But yeah, I think you're right. It's the three of them for a long time. Oh, and Grunwald.

Cameron: And Grunwald! Wow.

Deepa: I can’t wait for Grunwald. I love Grunwald. She’s so funny! 

Cameron: The sorority house, the spooky funeral home…

Deepa: …Tippi the bird, who I think we only very, very, very recently realized, was a Hitchcock reference. 

Cameron: No, that took a while.

Deepa: Brilliant, and hilarious.

Deepa: Okay. Well, we don't have Grunwald yet, but we do have some new characters, one of which is not a new character technically, but is a new actor: I think we have Lesbian Jason now! He didn't actually show up like his face, but he's moved back into the house.

Cameron: Wait. Lesbian Jason wasn't in season one?

Deepa: No! 

Cameron: Oh no!

Deepa: [laughing] We only see Jason twice in season one, and both times it’s Business Jason.

Cameron: I'm sorry, everybody.

Deepa: Oh my god, you really have forgotten everything! That's so funny.

Cameron: Yes! Yes, very exciting, that it's just like his silhouette in the house, like.

Deepa: You can already tell it's not the old Jason, you can already tell it's the new one. We did say that we were gonna hold ourselves more accountable to the fact that Jason is also abusive. He is part of the NAT Club, he has a thing with Aria at some point… but we also like. Yeah, I don't know. We're gonna have to hold that while also holding that we have some affection for Jason, which, like now that I think about it, I like wonder when our affection for him developed. Was it only after the Ashley thing? Or did we like him all along? 

Cameron: Ohhhhh. That might have done it for us.

Deepa: I think that was it. We just think that's the most hilarious plot point to come out of Pretty Little Liars, that he and Ashley Marin slept together, and then that he had to like talk about it on the stand of his sister’s murder trial!

Cameron: The court of it all is just so like ridiculous, and like. That might have done it for us, yeah!

Deepa: I think it was only on like, after like re-watches after that we, yeah.

Cameron: Oh my god. Yes, so we get a new Jason.

Deepa: We get an actual new character, which is Therapist Anne!

Cameron: Oh my gosh, Therapist Anne! I have affection for her, but not in this episode.

Deepa: Okay. So. I'm guessing the reason why is because we don't like that she advocates for splitting them up, right?

Cameron: Yes, but I was thinking about it in the shower afterwards, and I was like, what if that was Mona?

Deepa: What if what was Mona? Oh, like Mona got in her head?

Cameron: What if Mona called – what if Therapist Anne did not call these parents and say that they should be split up? What if it was Mona who called these parents and said that the Liars have a toxic friendship and should spend time apart and isolate them further. That would be fun.

Deepa: That would be fucking hilarious. I feel like that'd be hard to keep up? Because wouldn't she be like – when someone showed up for their individual appointment, wouldn't she be like, “Where are the rest of you?”

Cameron: That’s a good point. That's an interesting question.

Deepa: I thought you meant Mona might have gotten in her head, because I don't know when Mona becomes a client of hers, but at some point she becomes a client of hers.

Cameron: Oh, well, that seems… I know she does.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: Interesting.

Deepa: It has to be soon, because it's this season, and she figures out that Mona's A, so.

Cameron: Yeah. Ooh.

Deepa: So yeah, so that that could be a theory. That is so funny, that is not where I thought you were going with this! I think – so, just to like recap our have our feelings because we've talked about this so much – but yeah, we like Therapist Anne in a lot of ways. We think that she is a realistic TV therapist, which is really not that common. Like she actually like talks like a therapist does, at least in my experience! And for the most part we think that she does things that are helpful for the Liars. But we are upset about the fact that she advocates for them to split up because they're already so isolated. That said: on rewatching this, I was like, I kind of get where she's coming from more, and I blame the parents more.

Cameron: Hmmmmmmmm.

Deepa: Because she doesn't know how fucking isolated they are, and how their parents are isolating them only further. She doesn't know that so many of them don't have friends outside of this.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: She doesn't know that, like, Spencer's parents are cutting her off from her boyfriend and her friends, right? So she doesn't know that they don't have anything else. And so I kind of like – just from the perspective of like seeing the four of them together, and how they clearly are reacting to each other in that session in a way that like is – you know, like – so I don't hate it as much? I still don't love it.

Cameron: I just think it's so irresponsible to do that without knowing that they don't have any support aside from each other, and like no one else knows what's going on, kind of? Like. Yes, I do think it's – I understand her being like, in the session, them looking at each other before saying anything to her, I think that's pretty like, okay, something's going on. But in that way, like they could have individual sessions with her, and still hang out outside like that. I don't know.

Deepa: No, I hear you. That's a good point. Yeah. It just fucking sucks like.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: And she, you know, she also lives in this town, and like sees the fucking headlines. Like you've seen the reactions they're getting from other people. Isolating them further at this point is messed up. Yeah.

Cameron: And I think the thing that's most unrealistic about her therapy practice is her availability.

Deepa: Yes!

Cameron: They call her day of, they get an appointment.

Deepa: Immediately! So funny. For some reason, when I was thinking about her sort of more realistic therapy practices, I was thinking about bad therapists I've seen on TV shows, and the first one that came to mind was: do you remember in Lovesick when Luke first starts therapy, he has this like crusty old white dude therapist, who just is like…caring for his plants the entire session? 

Cameron: Yes!

Deepa: And at the end he's like, “No, this is my method, I knew that you wouldn't want to talk.” I'm just like, fuck you!

Cameron: Yeah. Yeah, it's weird for your therapist to play like mind games, like weird power things with you.

Deepa: Right? Yeah. So anyway. We do enjoy the show Lovesick if you've never seen it. It used to be called Scrotal Recall.

Cameron: It did used to be called Scrotal Recall.

Deepa: The first season is probably the best, but that is not the season where Luke goes to therapy.

Cameron: No, it takes him a while.

Deepa: Anyway, there are lots of bad TV therapists, but that was the first one that came to mind. 

Cameron: Oh my gosh. Now I’m just gonna be like thinking of TV therapists in the back while we're doing this.

Deepa: It's also funny, because I've watched so many more like Mike Flanagan shows in the interim between the last time we watched PLL together. And so now, like, she shows up in that a lot – she shows up in Midnight Mass and in The Fall of the House of Usher. Therapist Anne, I forgot her name.

Cameron: Oh, Therapist Anne! Thank you. 

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, sorry. I switched back from Lovesick. She’s a lesbian in Midnight Mass, that’s kind of fun.

Cameron: Oh nice! I guess Therapist Anne could be a lesbian, we don't know.

Deepa: Totally! Yeah. I think she's a doctor in Midnight Mass as well. So. Lesbian Doctor Therapist Anne.

Cameron: Great! [both laugh] Oh, man, so you're saying we should blame the parents and… it's wild, we get them all in one room in this episode!

Deepa: We get them all in one room, possibly for the last time ever!

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: We get all the moms together at a couple of points, but I don't know if we’ve ever seen this many parents all at once.

Cameron: Some faction of them, has, like, shown up at the police station, or like at the hospital of various points. But I think this, like, every single person? Wild.

Deepa: God. That scene was, oh my god, like – okay. First of all, I gave Veronica worst parent.

Cameron: For her “preemptive strike”?

Deepa: Not so much even the preemptive strike, it's for the not believing Spencer, and not saying she believes Spencer. And then later the scene with Melissa, where Spencer very rightly points out that it feels like Melissa’s getting more support than Spencer is.

Cameron: Yeah. No.

Deepa: Yeah, it's, I don't know. Like sometimes Veronica's lawyerness comes out in her being like – we talked about this last season – better towards Spencer, because she like – because I think there's a point at which she like believes Spencer about things that I felt were her being a defense lawyer believing their client and not caring, you know.

Cameron: Hmm, yeah.

Deepa: And I think she was like trying to do that in this scene, in the sense that, like, she was trying to play that role of like, “It doesn't matter whether I believe you or not; this is what I think is best for you,” right? But she could also just believe her!

Cameron: I think it does matter to Spencer. I think it matters like.

Deepa: That's the thing. You're not your daughter's lawyer only, right? Like.

Cameron: You’re her mother as well.

Deepa: Wildly, the only parent that said that they believed anyone was Pam!

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: She said, “I believe you, Emily.” No one else did!

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: She did immediately follow it up with like, “It's just how it looks that I'm worried about.” But. She still said “I believe you”! [both laugh] Did you also give Veronica worst parent?

Cameron: I think I cheated because I was like, they're all in this fucking thing together. So I just clumped them together. I was like, this is bullshit.

Deepa: Yeah, I wrote that down initially, and then in the follow-up scene with the Hastingses, that’s when I was like, I think Veronica edges out a little bit. But I did not give a best parent.

Cameron: Nice. I was just like, no, they're all in – colluding, and this united front, absolutely not.

Deepa: Like when Melissa's being better about this than Veronica is…?

Cameron: Oh my god! Also. So the car crash didn't kill Melissa's baby? Shocking! Melissa's still pregnant.

Deepa: She is going to have a miscarriage again. I don't think this time we think it's an abortion. I think we know it's a miscarriage? I don't know.

Cameron: It’s really hard to say.

Deepa: Very hard to say, yeah!

Cameron: I do think Taylor is a cute name for a baby.

Deepa: It is! Yes, yes. I agree. Spencer was cute in that – but also just like, so sad! Poor Spencer. God.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: The isolating from Toby bit, like… our listeners all know how we feel about Toby, and about Toby and Spencer, but like, from the Hastingses’ perspective, like fuck you so much! Like. She has no one! She has no one.

Cameron: Like what are you wanting to happen here? Obviously she's going to sneak around behind your back, because you're not letting her see the people that understand what's happening with her, and, like, support her? What?

Deepa: And, unlike Aria, her sibling is also like not someone that you think is being supportive of her right now, because they don't know that they had the secret conversation. And I wouldn't say that secret conversation was exactly supportive of Spencer. It was like Melissa believing so hard in her own narrative of Ian that she's like, Spencer's answer feels more right to me than my parents’ answer that he ran off on me, right?

Cameron: Yeah, exactly. It's motivated by her like desires, but still, like having a real conversation about it. Yeah. I guess we don't get Mike's reaction. [both laugh]

Deepa: I do want Mike's reaction to Noel Kahn being back in school! His best friend. 

Cameron: Sorry, you mentioned Aria: I honestly thought Ezra answered the door naked, and I was like, this is the worst thing I've ever seen.

Deepa: I wrote down that that was a jump scare, because I think it was. That was my reaction to it, certainly.

Cameron: [laughing] A jump scare! Incredible.

Deepa: I don’t wanna fucking see that! Fuck you!

Cameron: Just like put some clothes on!

Deepa: This is obviously on purpose, ‘cause he knew Aria was coming over. I hate him so muuuuuch! 

Cameron: I hate him so much. The way he was behaving like, “Don't shut me out.”

Deepa: I know, I know. “You think you don't have me, but you do.” Oh, have you writing a book about you? Yes, that's – yeah, that's true.

Cameron: You have me like stalking you and your friends.

Deepa: Also, it's like, I know this doesn't last this time either, but Aria is this mad about him having a fiancée she didn't know about – which I think is legitimate, right? Like, if you're in this serious of a relationship you talk about exes. But why doesn't that energy last when he's doing far fucking worse things?

Cameron: That like directly impact her and the people she cares about? Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, like not telling people about an ex is like a shitty but very normal thing that happens in relationship. And…ugh! I shouldn't even validate this as a relationship, obviously, it's an abusive situation. But like. You know.

Cameron: Is it just that literally gets shot? And it just like erases all like blame?

Deepa: Yeah. I think I mean, I think it's like he risked not only his book, but his life.

Cameron: Not only his book but his life! [both crack up] God. Gross.

Deepa: Yeah. This episode is also where we get proof that Ezra has a Master's, because it's the diploma that tells us he has a Master’s in English literature from Hollis. Which makes it more logical that he could teach high school, but not that he could teach at Hollis right after graduating with a Master’s and no teaching experience, except for a few months at high school.

Cameron: No, that’s not how the job market works.

Deepa: And, more importantly, it makes this age gap with Aria even bigger.

Cameron: Oh, yeah.

Deepa: Right? He's gotta be at least, I don't know, 26? No, not 26, at least 24, probably?

Cameron: 24, I would say.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, so.

Cameron: I don't – he's not a prodigy. Like he didn’t skip any grades, he didn’t, like…

Deepa: No, no, no, no. If they wanted us to believe that, they would have said it so many times.

Cameron: They’d be like, “Ezra!” It’s true.

Deepa: They just don't give a fuck whether he's 24 or 22 or 18, right?

Cameron: They just really do not care.

Deepa: Also doesn’t that mean that – I think that means that he was a grad student even when he met Alison. Which, like in my mind, he was in college when he met Alison. But I think he was a grad student even when he met Alison.

Cameron: Gross.

Deepa: Even if you think she's 18, let's like – I don't know.

Cameron: You're getting your fucking Master’s, and you're like fucking children. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah.

Cameron: I'm sorry, they “never had sex”.

Deepa: But him and Aria have definitely had sex!

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: Also it shouldn’t matter, he was still abusing Alison.

Cameron: Yes, yes. I just. They love to draw those lines.

Deepa: They love to tell us how much none of the adults who are using Alison are having sex with her.

Cameron: Yeah, okay, that makes it so much better. What?

Deepa: Oh, okay, something I didn't remember was that…Ella moves back in? I thought that the conflict at the end of last season was what broke them up for good, like their conflict over when she gets the text that was meant for Ezra. And then Byron like wants to spy on Aria’s life more, blah blah blah blah blah! I thought that was what led to them actually like breaking up. But she's moving back in. So I don't know when they bring up again!

Cameron: That's a great point. Ugh. Aria looked so happy that her mom was moving back in.

Deepa: I know, I feel so sad. You know what it is? I think it's gonna be when they find out about Ezra. I think that will break them up.

Cameron: I was wondering that. I was like, is that when this goes down? Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now that I think about it, like, I mean, they could have still had like a family meeting with Ella there, even if she didn't live there. But that was like all of them in their house together, when Aria and Ezra announce it, so.

Cameron: Ah, and Mike is incredible!

Deepa: Mike, the only person who punches Ezra in the face! As far as we know.

Cameron: “As far as we know” is a great caveat! Like there's just all these people punching as Ezra in the face that we don't get to know, that's amazing.

Deepa: I fucking hope so! I have to believe that for my own...

Cameron: Hopefully Jason does at some point, right? He's a little chaotic. He might. Why not?

Deepa: Yeah. He could punch people in the face, for sure. Not Business – well, maybe Business Jason too. I don't know. But definitely this Jason.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I guess Ezra does get shot by someone, but.

Cameron: It’s like, not…

Deepa: And I don't think they were intending to – I don’t even remember who it is. Who is it? Shana?

Cameron: It’s like incidental.

Deepa: Yeah, it's basically incidental. And it wasn't for him being an abuser. 

Cameron: No, so, like, not even…

Deepa: Yeah. And he survived that too. So. Oh, in that scene Aria asks him if he was still in love with Jackie when they met, and when he doesn't respond, she says, “I wish I would have known that.” And the way she says it, it's like almost exactly something that Ella said before, like with that phrasing, and I was just like, oh, that was actually good writing.

Cameron: They're actually like taking notes. Paying attention.

Deepa: You like reused a phrase from a mother to a daughter.

Cameron: Wow! Nicely done. I did not notice anything of the sort, so thank you.

Deepa: That’s my literary analysis for this episode.

Cameron: Amazing.

Deepa: I couldn't find anything else. Spencer has a Russian history textbook at some point, but I didn't see the title.

Cameron: My sports analysis for this episode is two things. One, I think this is the first time we've seen cheerleaders at the school. Exciting.

Deepa: Oh, I didn't notice them.

Cameron: They weren't like a main thing, but like the outfits, and like I was like, oh, yeah, we haven't seen cheerleaders before. And secondly, I really hope that Emily's like computer background is just a picture of her swimming, because that's what it kinda looked like. But we couldn't like totally see it. And that was like, that's what I wanted to be really badly.

Deepa: That’s so funny!

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: In a lot of the Thai television that I've been watching, there's just a really common thing where people's rooms will be decorated with pictures of themselves, but like, pictures of themselves, like, so posed too. And not even just like their childhood bedrooms, or whatever, where they may have had, you know, their parents putting up pictures, but like their college dorms, they'll just have like a, a very clearly studio photograph picture of themselves on their nightstand!

Cameron: Just of them, and not like with friends?

Deepa: No, not with anyone else! It’s so funny.

Cameron: Wow! That's very interesting.

Deepa: Oh my god. Did your school high school have cheerleaders?

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: Okay, mine did not. We had dance teams. Did people walk around in their cheerleading outfits like during the day in school?

Cameron: You have to on your – on the days that – 

Deepa: You have to?

Cameron: You know how like…

Deepa: Like a spirit thing?

Cameron: Yeah, I think so.

Deepa: Ohhhh, oh, interesting. Yeah, I guess you have to – yeah, I guess on game days you wear… well, the only sport I did in high school was tennis, and I think we had to wear our shirts, but we certainly didn't have to wear like – 

Cameron: Skirts?

Deepa: – like our skirts or shorts. But we did have to wear our shirts on game days, I think. Yeah, okay, interesting.

Cameron: I’m pretty sure it's like part of the thing.

Deepa: Right right right right. Okay, okay, interesting. Yeah. That makes sense now that you say it. I just wanted to know if that was a TV thing or a real thing.

Cameron: I think that's real, at least in my understanding. And experience.

Deepa: That's so funny. Yeah. We've also been – the weekend that we're recording this is the finals of women's March Madness.

Cameron: Yup.

Deepa: And every time I watch a college basketball game, I like forget that there are cheerleaders, because the WNBA, at least – do any teams have cheerleaders? In the W?

Cameron: No, they have a lot of different dance teams. Yeah. But all of the college teams have cheerleaders, which is, yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. And like, mostly, I don't see them, watching on television. But like, sometimes you see them a little bit on the side.

Cameron: Like on the sidelines.

Deepa: Yeah, someone’s like doing a flip during a free throw.

Cameron: Cool. Yeah, so cheerleaders exist at…

Deepa: That makes sense. I do think most high schools have cheerleaders.

Cameron: We get a reemergence of Caleb! And…how long does it take for them to get back together? Is my question.

Deepa: I think a few episodes.

Cameron: Ugh.

Deepa: I think that – this is funny – I think that they like team together to try and help Lucas get together with a girl he has a crush on.

Cameron: Oh, that's such a like fake dating, like, fake like setup.

Deepa: I don't think they're pretending to date. I think they just start hanging out more like with Lucas and trying to help set him up, and then like that brings them back together.

Cameron: Do they help Lucas at all?

Deepa: I think maybe?

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: I think so, because I think he actually asks this girl out. Like it's a girl in the Yearbook Club with him, and I think he actually asks her out, and like probably wouldn't have if they hadn't – I don't know. I don't think they're doing like shenanigans, really, like they're not like trying to trick them into getting together. They're just like trying to boost Lucas's self confidence. I don't know.

Cameron: Okay. Okay.

Deepa: That's my memory, we’ll see if I’m right.

Cameron: It could be totally different.

Deepa: But I do think it takes them a few episodes.

Cameron: Ugh, okay.

Deepa: Ah, that scene. That scene. The, like, “You can’t look at me like that!”

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Very cute. I also love how committed Ashley is to drinking wine that she will drink wine with a teenager that’s not her own child. I don't remember if my parents did that when I was like a teenager? Would they have like sat there drinking wine while just one of my friends was over, and I was busy? I don't know, but I don't think so!

Cameron: That’s a good question. That's an interesting move.

Deepa: He’s drinking like a Diet Coke or something, but like she's just sitting there with her glass of wine. She's like, I need a drink for this conversation. [both laugh]

Deepa: Thank you, Lucas, for bringing him.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: Lucas’s good friend move.

Cameron: Yes, we appreciate you deciding to do a friendship.

Deepa: Yeah, I do think it’s undermined later a bit by the fact that he like takes Caleb’s money or something.

Cameron: For his gambling debts?

Deepa: Yeah! [both laugh] This was your good friend move to both of them. And, you know, Caleb lives with him for a while like, yeah.

Cameron: Oh my god!

Deepa: Lucas. I just feel like anything Lucas does is inherently funny.

Cameron: He’s just… [laughs]

Deepa: Speaking of good friends, I enjoyed the Emily and Toby scene.

Cameron: Me too! I did write, it won't always be like that, was my note.

Deepa: Okay, I'm curious what you mean by that…

Cameron: I just meant Toby.

Deepa: Just Toby himself?

Cameron: Toby himself will not be showing up and doing like cute things.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. For sure, for sure. I couldn't remember if there was something specific between Emily and Toby that happens. But yeah, Toby himself.

Cameron: I mean, maybe, we have no idea. We’ve only seen this show like…

Deepa: I mean, I don't think we ever get any like… so when Toby turns out to have joined the A Team. 

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: And the fallout from that – we only ever see Spencer's reaction to that. We never see Emily reaction to finding out that he was also like on the A Team against her, like it wasn't just affecting Spencer like.

Cameron: Yeah, I guess we don't see the impacts of that in their friendship.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. I mean, they wash over that way too quickly, too.

Cameron: True.

Deepa: Anyway. He did, I think, give us a glimpse of his carpenter future in that scene.

Cameron: Yes! Oh my gosh!

Deepa: Taking the thing off her wall that has all the heights marked. It's cute.

Cameron: So they're trying to move to Texas and sell their home.

Deepa: Yeah.

Cameron: And the realtor man, whoever he is, was just like in Emily's room, without announcing himself? Without her mother present, without saying, “This is happening,” that was so weird.

Deepa: It was really weird. It was really weird. Ugh. I don't know. I don't know. Also: do you say “reel-ter” or “reel-a-ter”? How do you pronounce it?

Cameron: “Reel-ter”.

Deepa: Okay. Because Pam said “real-a-tor”, and that kind of threw me off.

Cameron: “Reel-a-ter”?

Deepa: “Reel-a-ter”.

Cameron: “Reel-a-ter”. [both laugh]

Deepa: Yeah, also Emily, leaving her laptop when he's showing the house. They're so bad at this.

Cameron: Do they have another copy of the NAT videos? Is that...

Deepa: No, I don't think so. I think that’s it.

Cameron: Ugh!

Deepa: Like when Garrett asks them, “Do you have another copy?” That’s the other copy!

Cameron: Fuck!

Deepa: Well, okay. So Spencer has a flash drive.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Does she have the flash drive in the beginning scene, the opening scene with Garrett? Because she throws it away in the last episode in the church. But did she get it back? Or does A get it?

Cameron: I think A gets it. We just find Melissa's phone in the church, not…

Deepa: Yeah, not the USB drive. Yeah, I think that's their backup. There's no cloud yet to back it up.

Cameron: That’s unfortunate.

Deepa: Anyway, Mona could hack into that.

Cameron: That's true. She could blue snarf it.

Deepa: Honestly, I think Mona actually going to Emily's room to delete it is just a power move, because I'm sure she could have done it remotely.

Cameron: True. She wanted to like be in her room while doing it. Yeah.

Deepa: Going back to Emily and Toby. I did appreciate the confirmation that Toby picked up on Emily's feelings for Maya even before she told him or told anyone, because that was sweet.

Cameron: Yeah, that was cute.

Deepa: So, you know. A few people have friends. But not Spencer, who needs the most support  right now, I think.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: And even Hanna, like. I guess Ashley couldn't have predicted that she and Mona would have been fighting. But now she and Mona are not in a good place, and so now she just has Lucas, I guess, ‘cause she's not reconciled with Caleb yet.

Cameron: Whose motives are always questionable. And Aria doesn't have a friend, right?

Deepa: Aria does not have a friend. I don't think Aria gets a friend until…what's his name, MMA Guy?

Cameron: J–

Deepa: No, no, no, not that MMA Guy. Sorry, that was confusing. The first, the one with the heart condition.

Cameron: Oh my god, that one! Where they're like each other's beards!

Cameron & Deepa: [talking over each other] Holden? Holden!

Deepa: Yes, yes, ‘cause they gotta do literary references for anyone that Aria ever meets. Yes, Holden. I think I would say that he's her only true friend outside of the Liars for most of this, if we're not counting boyfriends as friends, right.

Cameron: Right. Holden! Wow!

Deepa: I don't know when he shows up. I don't think for a while from now. Yeah. Anyway. 

Cameron: Oh my god, he wants to do MMA but he has a heart condition, so he has to lie to his parents.

Deepa: So he has to lie to his parents!

Cameron: Yeah. So no friends got it.

Deepa: No friends, no friends. So – they're weird about A’s gender again, and Aria in particular. At one point she says, “She? Him? Shim?” And I’m just like – why are they doing that if not to link dehumanizing A with nonbinary gender? Right? You know what I mean?

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Like I get to some degree them trying to dehumanize A, because that's what it feels like to them, right, in and of itself. But like the explicit way that that's linked with gender is so fucked up and weird, and also not at all out of character, given the way like they use intersexist slurs towards Lucas, but it's just so clear, right?

Cameron: Yeah. And then are we supposed to like flag that, and then be like, “Ooooh,” like to, you know? Ugh, god.

Deepa: I don't even think I don't even think it's an intentional direct connection to Charlotte later being trans, I think it's just the show's like culture.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: Right? Is like, of being fucked up about gender in this way. I don't think that any of the writers would make the connections that we are making between like intersexist slurs towards Lucas and transmisogyny later, right? Because I don't think it's intentional.

Cameron: Which is wild.

Deepa: Which is fucking wild.

Cameron: Like this is…

Deepa: I mean, obviously, because they don't think they're being transmisogynistic, right? They think that they just – like they think that they're like portraying a trans character, and that it's like a “twist” that it could, you know, like.

Cameron: Ughhhh. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. And you can tell that by the way they deal with it in Original Sin, because in Original Sin their like attempt to like be less transphobic is to have a trans dude character, played by a trans actor. Which is good in and of itself, you know, great, but – also to have like weird Psycho references, and like, I don't know. Like they don't connect to what's actually wrong with this. Maybe at most they connected, oh, we had a cis actor play a trans character, you know.

Cameron: We thought about that, maybe, in retrospect. Yeah.

Deepa: Right. But they clearly don't understand the like specific transmisogynistic tropes that they were employing and didn't do anything about that. And yeah. And then, like the way that they use Psycho in Original Sin – I think they acknowledge that Psycho is also transphobic, like I think – I can't remember any of the character’s names, but the one who's the filmmaker who like makes a – do you know what I'm talking about?

Cameron: Oh my god!

Deepa: A Psycho remake kind of thing.

Cameron: Psycho remake.

Deepa: But he's making like a feminist Psycho remake or something. I don't remember exactly.

Cameron: That's the alleged thing.

Deepa: Yeah, and so, she says, like, “I'm remaking this because it was transphobic,” or something like that. But like, it's still weird,, and it's still not actually like understanding what was wrong with PLL’s transphobia. You know what I mean?

Cameron: Oh god, you brought up Original Sin.

Deepa: Sorry!

Cameron: It has another season, right? Do we have to watch that? 

Deepa: Yes! I think we do.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: For the pod, if nothing else.

Cameron: Ugh, god! Just like, the validation of Aria and Ezra as a couple, as a relationship, as a like – ugh!

Deepa: As a couple that a character is having adopt her baby.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: Aaah!

Cameron: A character who’s been abused…

Deepa: A character who's been raped in a show that is explicitly about rape, in a way that original PLL was not.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Like, PLL doesn't ever really talk about rape and sexual assault, except for in one particular storyline with Hanna and the dude that Ezra almost married – wait, not Ezra, god, that Ella almost married.

Cameron: Oh! Oh, yeah. Young, young dude.

Deepa: Who sexually harasses Hanna.

Cameron: Zach!

Deepa: Zach! Thank you. Zach. Yes, but Original Sin is explicitly about rape, like there's no question about it. That is, that is what the show is about, and multiple characters get raped, and they call it that. And they, you know – and by “they call it that” I mean, they name it, and…and still!

Cameron: That's like what the Psycho movie is about too, is also like her trying to navigate her trauma, and her not remembering, and like trying to get a little bit of power or understanding.

Deepa: Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah, it is such a show focused on rape.

Deepa: But you know, now that I think about it. It also does the thing that PLL does, which is, in the end, it's actually not about rape. Like in the end the person who is like tormenting them has nothing to do with them being raped, right? So. Which is true in PLL too. So I guess they didn’t totally understand what they were doing there either.

Cameron: It's so like, yeah, it takes the like, “Here's the power things that are happening in lots of different people's lives”, yeah, and then it's like, “but this is like even more.”

Deepa: “This is even more”, and it's from a disabled person, because the actual person – I mean, not the person who was planning it, but the person who was actually tormenting them turns out to be, right? God.

Cameron: So that'll be a project for us as well.

Deepa: It will!

Cameron: Do we watch that like while we're doing this? Or like, do we save it for later?

Deepa: Oooh, good question. I mean, I have no idea when it's actually coming out. Do you know anything?

Cameron: I feel like it's out. Am I making that up? 

Deepa: It’s out? What?

Cameron: I don’t know, I could just be lying.

Deepa: No, I’m looking at this now, I do remember seeing things about it recently. Also it's confusing that they named in Original Sin, and now if I say “original PLL”, that sounds weird.

Cameron: It does sound weird. Yeah.

Deepa: I think this second season has some other like funny name like tagged on it – on the end of the title, I mean. “Summer school”! That's what it's called. 

Cameron: “Summer school”?

Deepa: Pretty Little Liars: Summer School.

Cameron: Pretty Little Liars: Summer School!

Deepa: Okay, I'm not finding an air date.

Cameron: Well, I guess we'll watch Summer School.

Deepa: Yeah, there are some things we liked about it. But. Ugh. PLL’s legacy: ableism, transphobia, and – 

Cameron & Deepa: [kind of simultaneously] – abuse! [both laugh]

Cameron: How do we segue out of this?

Deepa: Well, we need to talk about outfits. So I guess that's how we segue.

Cameron: That’s a great segue, perfect.

Deepa: I don't have a ton of outfits, so maybe you should go first. I mean, I have some thoughts, but.

Cameron: I have, yeah, two thoughts. One: I really like Spencer's flowery red pink shirt. I thought that was nice.

Deepa: Yes.

Cameron: Different from her usual, like animal print – not animal print, but like pictures of animals. It’s not like zebra-print or leopard-print.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron: It’s like, here’s a horse on a shirt.

Deepa: Here's an actual animal on this shirt. Oh, at some point I should wear my cheetah shirt – which you totally called me out on as a Spencer shirt – while recording this pod.

Cameron: I thought that was nice.

Deepa: Yes, yes, and it was. It was very different from the shirts usually wears, but it was belted, which is very Spencer. So I felt like it worked.

Cameron: Yeah. And my least… they put Emily in another giant t-shirt, and they paired it with these like knee-high white boots that you only see at therapy.

Deepa: I didn’t notice the boots!

Cameron: But it's so. It was so weird like, if you're doing giant t-shirt and jeans, like put sneakers. I don't know what we're doing.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cameron: It was very like, what?

Deepa: Was that the same shirt that she also at some point was wearing a leather jacket over? The black leather jacket?

Cameron: I don't remember. I'm sorry. But I just, like… the boots.

Deepa: I missed the boots. That's funny. Yeah, yeah. For best, I also gave Spencer's, but I also thought that Mona's outfit was pretty fun the one that has like sheer white, with black horizontal stripes on the top, and I don't remember what the rest of it was, but I liked it. 

Cameron: Yeah, that was fun.

Deepa: It felt very fun and Mona. That one honestly, that just like popped out to me more than any other outfit, like I liked Spencer's a lot, and I thought she looked really good in it, but it wasn't like a super like eye-catching outfit, whereas Mona’s was like, oh, this is, something's happening.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I gave worst to Aria's earrings because I just don't believe that the show would have bought them from a Native beader. I just don't. I'm sorry. So.

Cameron: Yeah, no, I had that exact same thought. I was like, I don't think these are like...

Deepa: I can't imagine Aria a character actually buying them from a Native beader… I can't imagine the show bothering to… like they don't ever engage with Tyler Blackburn’s Indigeneity, I just don’t think… 

Cameron: I had a little boop about that, but I didn't make it to the…yeah.

Deepa: No, that's fair, that's fair. Those are my main outfit thoughts. I don't know. I guess again we're only doing one episode. They kind of had two different outfits, but there wasn't like a ton there, I felt like. I did appreciate all of Hannah's insights about Therapist Anne’s boots.

Cameron: I love that, that it made her like trust her a little bit more.

Deepa: I just, I love Therapist Anne’s reactions like, especially when Hanna says them, just like the little smile which is so funny, like confused, but also like…

Cameron: “Okay?”

Deepa: …amused.

Cameron: Yeah. [both laugh] It's our first like meeting clandestine meeting of the girls in the greenhouse.

Deepa: In the greenhouse. Yeah.

Cameron: Which is fun. I don't know why, but it's like so spooky.

Deepa: It is, it is. Abandoned greenhouses are like inherently kind of spooky, because it's like the glass, you know. I don't know, and like the overgrown plants or dead plants. I can't remember what they were. But like. You know?

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I like it. I like it.

Cameron: That's true. There's something about it being perceptible from any outside. Just full of windows. Only glass.

Deepa: Yeah. I do like that. Spencer can take the time to put periods in her S.O.S. messages, but not to give any detail! Like how did they know to go to the greenhouse?

Cameron: I know!

Deepa: I'm sure she followed up with another text. But it's just really funny that they only ever show us the “S.O.S.”

Cameron: Where is this greenhouse?

Deepa: I have no idea. In the woods somewhere? How do they know about it? At some point they have a confrontation with A there, I think.

Cameron: Well, someone smashes something in the greenhouse, right?

Deepa: Yes, and I think A drops a phone there at some point? That they then have for a while, like they have a confrontation where there's like a pretty physical confrontation, I think. But what they get out of it is.

Cameron: A phone.

Deepa: One of Mona's like backup phones, or something.

Cameron: There's no snakes in the greenhouses, is there?

Deepa: Oh! I don't think so.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: Oh, no! There are snakes in PLL, but they're not snakes in the greenhouse, you know where the snakes are? Are in a changing room.

Cameron: [gasps] At the shop. Oh my god! That's terrifying.

Deepa: That is a terrifying scene. Yeah. At the shop, at the shop where Charlotte works, right?

Cameron: And they make noises!

Deepa: The snakes?

Cameron: I think so.

Deepa: I don't remember if they make voices or not, but it's definitely terrifying!

Cameron: I think they make noises.

Deepa: Do you have like a snake fear? Beyond, just like reasonable, you know, general reasonable snake fear.

Cameron: Probably.

Deepa: My mom is terrified of snakes. Which is fair, because she grew up in India, where snakes were a real threat, and all like around all the time. But to the point where, like my sister has a snake tattoo on her back, and it's pretty big, and my mom gets scared seeing it so.

Cameron: Aww! No, I don't think – I mean I am gonna pan over to my snake lamp.

Deepa: Oh my god! Of course, I should know, you love your snake lamp. Oh, hi, snake lamp! Of course, I'm sorry.

Cameron: I love snakes as a concept.

Deepa: You love snakes as a concept. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How could I forget about snake lamp?

Cameron: Snake lamp!

Deepa: I miss you, snake lamp. I think you should probably put a picture of the snake lamp in the show notes.

Cameron: Unfortunately, snake lamp is on my desk, so only gets to be involved in work and not be involved in watching television, which was its previous home.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. No. You love Halloween snake imagery and stuff. Yeah, okay.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I don't know why I blanked on that. 

Cameron: It’s okay.

Deepa: But snakes themselves. Yeah, they're scary. They're scary.

Cameron: They’re scary! Like they could… yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. For some reason my mom went to see Snakes on a Plane with me when it came out . I don’t know why! It was the worst idea!

Cameron: What!

Deepa: We were like, I don't know, I think it was like I was on summer vacation. She had a day off work, and we used to always go to matinee movies, and, you know, get free popcorn refills and stuff. But for some reason she chose that, and I like. I don't think I was totally aware of her snake fear, the degree of her snake fear, until then. And I was like, “Why??”

Cameron: That’s… an interesting choice.

Deepa: We went to see it because we thought it would be funny. And it kind of was, it wasn't as funny as, you know, I think the hype made it out to be, but it also had a shit ton of snakes in it! On the plane!

Cameron: On the plane!

Deepa: The Snakes on a Plane song is something I associate with you.

Cameron: Thank you.

Deepa: The Cobra Starship –

Cameron: Yeah, that was on my like workout playlist for so long.

Deepa: I know. I know. That's why I associate it with you. [both laugh]

Cameron: I guess we haven't really talked about Ian at all? I mean, we don't like care about him. But he’s kind of important in this episode, I guess.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. It's like confusing to me that he's alive. I know we talked about this last season, that he isn't really dead, but I don't totally get how he like got out of that situation. I don't know.

Cameron: Yeah, I did make a note that said, of course Ian is an only child. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Deepa: Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That's funny.

Cameron: But yeah, not much else.

Deepa: Yeah, I mean, you know, we talked about this in the last episode of the first season. I do believe, like I do think Melissa's right, that Ian is committed to her and his baby, right? Because that is, I think, why he was doing all this and threatening Spencer, because he's afraid of that getting in the way. So in that sense, like. I think that's like a confirmation, just that, you know, where Ian's priorities are, I mean. Not that that like makes anything better, but I do think Melissa is right. I think that he wouldn't leave if he wasn't scared. And yeah, just, you know, trying to understand Ian's mind a little better. Also – I think Melissa knows that Ian and Alison also had something together.

Cameron: Oh yeah?

Deepa: I think when we get more confirmation – so – I think when they go to Hilton Head, right, Alison meets up with you in at Hilton Head, right? We know that.

Cameron: Waiting’ for Hilton Head!

Deepa: And I think that part of the reason Melissa goes there is to try to catch him in the act. I think there's a scene where, like –

Cameron: Oh my god!

Deepa: Alison's in his hotel room, and he like puts her in this like back part of it, because Melissa's there, and she like sneaks out. But she also, I think that's also where she steals the videos from him like, that's actually what she went there to do. She met up with him at Hilton Head to get the NAT Club videos. So maybe Melissa never found out for sure, but she definitely suspected them at some point.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: So, which is interesting, because then it feels like Melissa should at least suspect Ian a little bit of having killed Alison, given what he's doing.

Cameron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Has Melissa seen those videos?

Deepa: Okay. I don't remember, and I'm not sure it's ever made clear. But Melissa knows something about the NAT Club, because at one point, I think on the night of Alison's disappearance, maybe, she bursts into the room where they're filming from or something.

Cameron: Oh and is like, “You guys and your little weird movies.”

Deepa: Something like that. Yeah. So she knows something. But I don't know if she knows exactly what they were doing. 

Cameron: Okay. 

Deepa: Yeah. So we'll have to wait and see on that one.

Cameron: I mean, I know when she gives Spencer a video after she flees, like, she reveals that she knows like so much, right?

Deepa: So much. Yes, yes, but I don't. I don't totally know what she knows about the NAT Club. She knows that something existed. I mean, they like put that shit in their yearbooks, and Melissa was dating Ian at the time! So she has to have known at least that they like were friends, and had this like quote unquote “club”. She might not have known what it was, but.

Cameron: The fucking yearbooks.

Deepa: Yearbooks! So funny. Well, like honestly, that's like such a thing that like these, like gross dudes, would do, right? Don’t you think?

Cameron: Yeah, like, oh, we're getting away with being fucking disgusting.

Deepa: And the Latin name that we made up for our club cause we're all like preppy rich boys in this town.

Cameron: Gross. I do love a like searching for like answers in a yearbook moment.

Deepa: Yes.

Cameron: Like, I think that's like, “Oh!”

Deepa: No, there's a lot about the NAT Club story line that, we talked about this before, but it's not that I like what happens in it, but I think makes sense more sense, for, like what the show is about than the actual A plotlines, right?

Cameron: Why couldn't A have just been the NAT Club?

Deepa: Yeah, they were also, that's also surveillance, that’s also – 

Cameron: They’re fucking creepy as fuck.

Deepa: They’re fucking creepy, they’re fucking abusive, you know. So.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah. Yeah. And it just like doesn't end up mattering at all.

Cameron: It doesn’t matter at all.

Deepa: But I think we are gonna start getting more stuff about NAT Club because they I think they're searching the yearbooks because Ian's now gone, right. So there!

Cameron: Oh, it’s like through his things?

Deepa: They're just looking through various things that he left. Yeah.

Cameron: Right.

Deepa: Looking for any clues about him. Also, I just realized that means Wren's gonna be back at some point.

Cameron: Ew.

Deepa: Because he's helping Melissa with like medical supplies for Ian?

Cameron: Oh, like, really soon. Yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, before Ian actually dies.

Cameron: Wren should not be a doctor.

Deepa: He should not.

Cameron: I do love that one of our – oh, our guest, our one guest we've had on the show so far. calls him like Mouse Man.

Deepa: So funny.

Cameron: Thank you, Dylan.

Deepa: Mouse Man! Yeah, he definitely should not be a doctor, and definitely not a psychiatrist, which is possibly what his residency is in. I don't remember.

Cameron: Yiiiiikes. 

Deepa: But he's volunteers at Radley, so.

Cameron: Fucking Radley.

Deepa: Yeah, yeah. I think he's a resident. He's gotta be a resident. I think he finished med school. Yeah, he has too much power to be just a med student, and also in England med school is undergrad. So.

Cameron: What?

Deepa: In most of the world! In most of the world, med school is not a graduate degree.

Cameron: Oh!

Deepa: Yeah. And so like in India, at least, when my parents are in med school, which was a long time ago, but I think this is still true: it's like a five year degree.

Cameron: Okay.

Deepa: And it's weird, because – so in India, when you finish medical school, you don't get an MD You get a degree called MBBS, which is like something Bachelor of Science. MB, something, Bachelor of Science. But you are a doctor, basically. And you still have to do internship and residency like you do here, but only after you finish residency do you get the official MD.

Cameron: Oh.

Deepa: Which is funny, because my dad did med school in India, and then came here for residency, which means he's not technically an MD. Because here, at the end of residency, you don't get anything, like, residency is like an extra training. But you're already an MD when you start residency, so he’s technically not an MD, which is really funny.

Cameron: Gosh! I know so little about so many other countries.

Deepa: I mean, I think most of the countries where I'm aware of how medical school works are based on the British system. But I think in most parts of the world it's not a graduate degree. You might just, it might be longer than like a Bachelor’s here. I think, also, probably in a lot of places – even in the U.S., you can't really practice without having done some kind of residency, but you technically can. And I think in other countries even more, you can't practice unless you've done residency.

Cameron: Hmm.

Deepa: So. Med school like fun facts, I guess!  Anyway, I think that Wren is a resident. I don't know what his residency is in, but it could be psychiatry or could be an intern. He's probably an intern actually at this point. So. Which means could be in anything.

Cameron: I think another new thing for our season two, is we are calling our final chunk of the episode a thing. Do you wanna share what we're calling it?

Deepa: Yes, we're calling it Chickpeas Oh My Gosh!

Cameron: Chickpeas Oh My Gosh!

Deepa: Which, if you don't remember, listeners, is a play on a dish that the Montgomerys apparently make often, which is called Chicken Oh My Gosh, right? So yeah. Welcome to our last segment, Chickpeas Oh My Gosh!

Cameron: Chickpeas Oh My Gosh!

Deepa: We did not plan well for this, so neither of us showed up with a recipe, which means you're getting another Deepa depression recipe! Which is just to put chickpeas in your instant ramen, or instant noodles. Whatever version of instant noodles you make just like dump some chickpeas in. Extra protein, tasty.

Cameron: What else do you put in your ramen?

Deepa: Okay. So these days, I don't put chickpeas as much, actually, because I often put frozen edamame, as you know.

Cameron: Yes.

Deepa: But recently I didn't have any frozen edamame and did have chickpeas. So I did that again. I also put soy sauce and sambal, that seems normal. And sometimes I put an egg. I think if we're like actually doing ramen, we like often put like green onions and stuff, but.

Cameron: Oh yeah.

Deepa: Yeah, like the quick, easy ramen is an egg swirled in or poached. The slightly more time consuming ramen is maybe a soft boiled egg.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: And when I was in India recently visiting family – so in India the most common brand of instant noodles is called Maggi Noodles, which actually is like a Swedish company. But I think India is their biggest like buyer. It's like so popular in India. It's the only instant noodle that I've ever seen anyone eaten in India. And we did have some good Maggi the nights where my cousin cooked it with like – she just bought a bunch of vegetables, mushrooms, broccoli, and put some ginger, I think, in there too. So that was nice. I don't think she put chickpeas on that. How about you? What do you put in your ramen?

Cameron: I've been influenced. I've gotten into the buldak ramen.

Deepa: Oh, okay. Okay.

Cameron: So just the package, and less like no broth, and then put a like fried egg on top of it.

Deepa: Nice.

Cameron: I accidentally bought 2X spice recently, instead of like normal spice, and that's been…. I think I had the last of it yesterday, but it was like noticeable. I had to like put aloe vera all over my face after, ‘cause I was like, I need to calm down. 

Deepa: That's so funny! Yeah, my sister is moving back to the area soon, and I do think that when she moves back, we are going to be eating a lot more ramen and hopefully, different varieties. Because right now, I just you know, I just make my parents buy the, like, Top Ramen chicken broth flavor that I've been eating forever. But.

Cameron: Yeah.

Deepa: I do like other brands too, especially different flavors, so.

Cameron: I think of you whenever I save the flavor packet from the chicken Top Ramen, If I'm doing something else with the noodles.

Deepa: Awww, do you do anything with them?

Cameron: I have on occasion! I think I've put it as like a soup flavoring before or like, ‘cause like some ramen flavoring is bad, also.

Deepa: Yeah, that’s what I usually save it for. If we try a new flavor, and we don't like it, then at least I can use it.

Cameron: The basic. Yeah. Reliable.

Deepa: Ah, now I want ramen.

Cameron: Same.

Deepa: I'm excited that we're back. I think we are hoping to maybe have like more guests this season. I would definitely love Dylan to come back. I think there's some other folks that we might try to convince to be on our pod with us. So.

Cameron: And I think for folks that maybe don't necessarily want to engage so much with our PLL content, we're hoping to get some like guest chickpea recipes.

Deepa: Yeah, that would be fun. Not just my father.

Cameron: I mean, that was fantastic.

Deepa: We could have my father again! Yeah, I'm not ruling it out.

Cameron: And some other!

Deepa: Exactly. Exactly.

Cameron: That could be fun.

Deepa: So. Thank you all for listening, and we will be back soon with more. And until then… 

Cameron & Deepa: [kind of simultaneously] Act normal, bitches!